PART 2: Wayne Adam Ford: The Serial Killer with a Conscience?

100:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,160[MUSIC PLAYING]200:00:04,160 --> 00:00:11,080This is where we start to unpack what I talked about in part one,300:00:11,080 --> 00:00:15,840where he's often referred to as one of the serial killers400:00:15,840 --> 00:00:17,120with the conscience.500:00:17,120 --> 00:00:17,640Mm-hmm.600:00:17,640 --> 00:00:18,520That's right.700:00:18,520 --> 00:00:19,880You did say that.800:00:19,880 --> 00:00:24,440I kind of lost track of that during all the horrific things900:00:24,440 --> 00:00:25,280I was hearing.1000:00:25,280 --> 00:00:26,080Right.1100:00:26,080 --> 00:00:27,080Yeah.1200:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,560[MUSIC PLAYING]1300:00:30,560 --> 00:00:40,200Hi, Cassie.1400:00:40,200 --> 00:00:41,360Hi, Caitlyn.1500:00:41,360 --> 00:00:42,800Hi, creepy people.1600:00:42,800 --> 00:00:43,560Hello.1700:00:43,560 --> 00:00:45,280Hello.1800:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,600I never get sick of that.1900:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,000Hopefully you don't either, creepy people.2000:00:50,000 --> 00:00:51,320Yeah.2100:00:51,320 --> 00:00:54,000If you're new to our creepy corner of the world,2200:00:54,000 --> 00:00:58,880this is PNW Haunts and Homicides, where we chat about True Crime,2300:00:58,880 --> 00:01:03,360the paranormal, and all things creepy in the Pacific Northwest.2400:01:03,360 --> 00:01:06,160That's what PNW stands for, FYI.2500:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,200If you're not, sticky.2600:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,720We also do a tarot reading at the end of every episode2700:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,600for a little deeper insight into our topic.2800:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,760So make sure to stick around if you're into that.2900:01:18,760 --> 00:01:19,480Yeah.3000:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,360Or if you're not into that, stick around anyway.3100:01:22,360 --> 00:01:23,880Do away.3200:01:23,880 --> 00:01:25,560Mm-hmm.3300:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,960This week, we're back to telling the backstory of Wayne3400:01:28,960 --> 00:01:30,360Adam Ford.3500:01:30,360 --> 00:01:32,160But we're going to get into the crimes3600:01:32,160 --> 00:01:34,080that would make headlines following3700:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,880his eventual arrest as well.3800:01:37,880 --> 00:01:42,000I'm not really going to preamble this.3900:01:42,000 --> 00:01:42,480OK.4000:01:42,480 --> 00:01:44,200We're just going to dive right in.4100:01:44,200 --> 00:01:45,640So--4200:01:45,640 --> 00:01:46,240Yay.4300:01:46,240 --> 00:01:46,880Let's go.4400:01:46,880 --> 00:01:47,600Let's dive.4500:01:47,600 --> 00:01:48,440Go for a dive.4600:01:48,440 --> 00:01:50,160She's not reaching for her glass.4700:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,960I felt like I was giving her a strong enough cue there.4800:01:52,960 --> 00:01:54,440[LAUGHS]4900:01:54,440 --> 00:01:55,480To take a big sip?5000:01:55,480 --> 00:01:56,600Yeah.5100:01:56,600 --> 00:01:58,960And keep it close.5200:01:58,960 --> 00:02:03,320Let's recall that he's in his drunkenly wearing camo5300:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,920to stalk my wife in the front yard phase of life.5400:02:06,920 --> 00:02:08,160Right.5500:02:08,160 --> 00:02:13,240So things are obviously about to start running downhill.5600:02:13,240 --> 00:02:14,880I can't imagine why.5700:02:14,880 --> 00:02:15,400Yeah.5800:02:15,400 --> 00:02:16,440Where is this going?5900:02:16,440 --> 00:02:16,760Yeah.6000:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,360I really hope that was obvious.6100:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,080I don't feel like I want to have to explain that.6200:02:22,080 --> 00:02:23,960If that sounds like something you want to do,6300:02:23,960 --> 00:02:25,320maybe check your life.6400:02:25,320 --> 00:02:26,400Yeah.6500:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,640It's time to re-evaluate.6600:02:29,640 --> 00:02:31,640Respectfully.6700:02:31,640 --> 00:02:37,2001983 and 1984 were particularly rough years.6800:02:37,200 --> 00:02:41,340Actually, you should probably just assume moving forward6900:02:41,340 --> 00:02:45,680just rough years if I'm being totally honest.7000:02:45,680 --> 00:02:46,360Got it.7100:02:46,360 --> 00:02:47,360OK.7200:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,160Just one example.7300:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,080When he complained about depression7400:02:51,080 --> 00:02:54,280to someone in his unit, he was hospitalized7500:02:54,280 --> 00:02:58,960in the Navy's psychiatric ward in San Diego.7600:02:58,960 --> 00:03:03,200His condition did not improve after his short-term stay,7700:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,960which shouldn't be surprising because three days7800:03:06,960 --> 00:03:11,880is really enough time to solve anyone's serious problems,7900:03:11,880 --> 00:03:16,080even three months, in some cases, I'd argue.8000:03:16,080 --> 00:03:17,080Like--8100:03:17,080 --> 00:03:18,080Yeah.8200:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,760If anything, his behavior only grew worse,8300:03:21,760 --> 00:03:25,440because that's usually how these things work.8400:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,560Yeah, especially if you don't get the help you need.8500:03:28,560 --> 00:03:33,160Eventually, at some point, after Kelly asked him for a divorce,8600:03:33,160 --> 00:03:37,720she did begin dating the coworker he'd been jealous of, too.8700:03:37,720 --> 00:03:38,920Oh, no.8800:03:38,920 --> 00:03:39,920Yeah.8900:03:39,920 --> 00:03:40,760Ooh.9000:03:40,760 --> 00:03:41,400Uh-huh.9100:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,360That stinks.9200:03:43,360 --> 00:03:47,560So I'm sure in his mind, all of his greatest insecurities9300:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,480and worries are essentially coming to life.9400:03:50,480 --> 00:03:51,280Yeah.9500:03:51,280 --> 00:03:52,760I feel like he kind of put that on himself, though.9600:03:52,760 --> 00:03:56,120I was just going to say, I feel like you kind of manifested9700:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,960that into existence.9800:03:58,960 --> 00:04:00,440She's like, you know, I never really9900:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,560looked twice at this guy, but now all of a sudden,10000:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,120next to you, out here in the yard in your camo,10100:04:07,120 --> 00:04:09,800and just camping out.10200:04:09,800 --> 00:04:10,640Crazy eyes.10300:04:10,640 --> 00:04:12,160Yeah.10400:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,480He's looking pretty good, actually.10500:04:14,480 --> 00:04:15,240Yeah.10600:04:15,240 --> 00:04:16,920I could see that.10700:04:16,920 --> 00:04:21,880It's roughly around this time that Wayne began stalking Kelly.10800:04:21,880 --> 00:04:25,840Obviously that doesn't seem like it's going to end well.10900:04:25,840 --> 00:04:29,680But thankfully, all indications are that it didn't last for long11000:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,040once their divorce was finalized.11100:04:32,040 --> 00:04:32,800Oh, OK.11200:04:32,800 --> 00:04:33,480Good.11300:04:33,480 --> 00:04:35,160Got to get that paperwork.11400:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,240I mean, shitty that he stalked her at all,11500:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,120because that shits terrifying.11600:04:39,120 --> 00:04:39,960Yeah.11700:04:39,960 --> 00:04:41,760Don't love that.11800:04:41,760 --> 00:04:43,560I mean, it would be great if that was11900:04:43,560 --> 00:04:48,200because Wayne actually got the help that he clearly needed12000:04:48,200 --> 00:04:53,320for his increasingly declining mental health.12100:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,560But in actuality, it was due in large part,12200:04:56,560 --> 00:05:01,280if not entirely, to his transfer to Okinawa, Japan.12300:05:01,280 --> 00:05:03,000Oh, so he went like super far away.12400:05:03,000 --> 00:05:04,560So he was like, that stalking thing,12500:05:04,560 --> 00:05:06,360that's going to be a little much from here.12600:05:06,360 --> 00:05:06,960Yeah.12700:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,120It's pretty hard to pull that off.12800:05:09,120 --> 00:05:09,880God.12900:05:09,880 --> 00:05:10,200OK.13000:05:10,200 --> 00:05:11,240Yeah.13100:05:11,240 --> 00:05:15,080So one way or another, that was done.13200:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,200Thank goodness for her.13300:05:17,200 --> 00:05:18,760I know.13400:05:18,760 --> 00:05:23,440After just a few short weeks went by, not much had changed.13500:05:23,440 --> 00:05:28,720In fact, he had another episode of a sort of medical and psychiatric13600:05:28,720 --> 00:05:30,640combination.13700:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,600And this is where my thought is, what's13800:05:34,600 --> 00:05:38,120happening in a person's mind can eventually13900:05:38,120 --> 00:05:44,960take a serious toll on the physical body, like my ex-did on my hairline?14000:05:44,960 --> 00:05:45,960Oh, gosh.14100:05:45,960 --> 00:05:46,960Yeah.14200:05:46,960 --> 00:05:51,560It was like I was dealing with male pattern baldness a little bit.14300:05:51,560 --> 00:05:53,600Just losing my hair.14400:05:53,600 --> 00:05:55,080That's all stress.14500:05:55,080 --> 00:05:56,720Yeah, zero stress.14600:05:56,720 --> 00:05:58,400Do not recommend.14700:05:58,400 --> 00:06:04,880It wasn't until 1984, after several transfers and unsuccessful attempts14800:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,720to treat his badly worsening physical and mental health,14900:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,400that he was diagnosed with BPD.15000:06:12,400 --> 00:06:13,720Bipolar disorder.15100:06:13,720 --> 00:06:14,520Yes.15200:06:14,520 --> 00:06:15,200I knew it.15300:06:15,200 --> 00:06:15,800Yeah.15400:06:15,800 --> 00:06:16,760Not that that's a good thing.15500:06:16,760 --> 00:06:18,840I just was proud that I knew what it meant.15600:06:18,840 --> 00:06:21,200No, I mean, it's exciting to be correct.15700:06:21,200 --> 00:06:21,640Yeah.15800:06:21,640 --> 00:06:23,200I get it.15900:06:23,200 --> 00:06:29,520Then in January of 1985, he was honorably discharged16000:06:29,520 --> 00:06:34,720following his less than stellar service record16100:06:34,720 --> 00:06:38,920with the US military, which honestly,16200:06:38,920 --> 00:06:43,720I was kind of embarrassed when I got to the end of this16300:06:43,720 --> 00:06:49,080because I had to read and reread the source material16400:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,560to confirm repeatedly.16500:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,800But I did assume that his problematic behavior16600:06:55,800 --> 00:06:57,680was just going to escalate to the point16700:06:57,680 --> 00:07:02,120where he would end up being discharged dishonorably.16800:07:02,120 --> 00:07:03,760But I guess not.16900:07:03,760 --> 00:07:07,520He held it together just enough for just long enough17000:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,360to eek out the honorable discharge.17100:07:10,360 --> 00:07:11,360Wow.17200:07:11,360 --> 00:07:15,000He eek, eek, right out of there.17300:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,920From there, he took odd jobs to make ends meet17400:07:17,920 --> 00:07:23,680following his discharge, which is arguably one of the most17500:07:23,680 --> 00:07:27,520innocuous but gross words ever.17600:07:27,520 --> 00:07:28,480Discharge?17700:07:28,480 --> 00:07:29,000Yes.17800:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,960Yeah, makes you think of nasty vaginal discharge17900:07:31,960 --> 00:07:33,960or penile discharge.18000:07:33,960 --> 00:07:35,640Oh, boy.18100:07:35,640 --> 00:07:37,720Sorry, everybody.18200:07:37,720 --> 00:07:38,920OK.18300:07:38,920 --> 00:07:45,320In 1986, at the age of 24, he moved to Garden Grove, California,18400:07:45,320 --> 00:07:47,560which is a really cute name for a place.18500:07:47,560 --> 00:07:51,920And I hate how these guys just ruin everything.18600:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,120I was going to say it sounds very pleasant.18700:07:54,120 --> 00:07:55,200Yeah.18800:07:55,200 --> 00:07:56,760Yeah.18900:07:56,760 --> 00:07:58,600It's at this point in the timeline19000:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,920that Wayne not only meets a new love interest,19100:08:01,920 --> 00:08:03,760and the two would actually eventually19200:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,800move to San Clemente together.19300:08:06,800 --> 00:08:11,680But he is also arrested for brutally attacking a sex worker.19400:08:11,680 --> 00:08:12,800Oh my god.19500:08:12,800 --> 00:08:13,640OK.19600:08:13,640 --> 00:08:14,160Yeah.19700:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,080So yeah, it's getting real here.19800:08:16,080 --> 00:08:16,760All right.19900:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,400He's got a lot going on.20000:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,360This relationship would be a tumultuous one,20100:08:22,360 --> 00:08:27,280but it didn't fizzle out fully until around 1991.20200:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,600And that is like five years too long.20300:08:30,600 --> 00:08:31,360I would argue.20400:08:31,360 --> 00:08:33,200Did you see me trying to math in my head?20500:08:33,200 --> 00:08:34,720I did.20600:08:34,720 --> 00:08:36,800How long did she put up with him for?20700:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,200I am looking at the notes, and I can see the two dates20800:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,000and can confirm.20900:08:43,000 --> 00:08:47,520It's a little bit confusing to parse this all out as well,21000:08:47,520 --> 00:08:52,840just because many of the women he had relationships with,21100:08:52,840 --> 00:08:59,680shocker, aren't super keen to be associated with him in the aftermath?21200:08:59,680 --> 00:09:02,760Or at least that's what I gather, because a lot of them21300:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,240did interviews at one point or another,21400:09:05,240 --> 00:09:07,240and they were anonymous.21500:09:07,240 --> 00:09:11,120And there's also some other things, but we're not there yet.21600:09:11,120 --> 00:09:12,360So just--21700:09:12,360 --> 00:09:13,560I'm not surprised.21800:09:13,560 --> 00:09:15,760I don't think we should be surprised that they're like,21900:09:15,760 --> 00:09:20,400yeah, let's talk about my serial killer ex-boyfriend.22000:09:20,400 --> 00:09:21,200Oh gosh.22100:09:21,200 --> 00:09:22,040Yeah.22200:09:22,040 --> 00:09:23,960Yeah, no thank you.22300:09:23,960 --> 00:09:24,440Right?22400:09:24,440 --> 00:09:25,080Never.22500:09:25,080 --> 00:09:26,760Yeah, no thanks.22600:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,480Hashtag, never Bundy.22700:09:29,480 --> 00:09:30,400Yeah.22800:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,280Swipe left, on Bundy.22900:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,680It's a couple of years later that Wayne meets Elizabeth23000:09:36,680 --> 00:09:39,920at a karaoke bar and the two hit it off.23100:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,240What bothers me about this is she was 19.23200:09:43,240 --> 00:09:44,240Oh.23300:09:44,240 --> 00:09:48,440And I don't know how she was able to get into bars.23400:09:48,440 --> 00:09:49,480Was it a bar bar?23500:09:49,480 --> 00:09:50,680Was it like a food?23600:09:50,680 --> 00:09:51,520It's like--23700:09:51,520 --> 00:09:52,880Please, totally clear to me.23800:09:52,880 --> 00:09:54,360So maybe that's all that is.23900:09:54,360 --> 00:09:56,800And I'm making something out of nothing.24000:09:56,800 --> 00:09:58,280Or fake idea or--24100:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,040Yeah, that was very popular in the '80s.24200:10:01,040 --> 00:10:02,960I have it on good authority.24300:10:02,960 --> 00:10:05,760Or maybe they just didn't even card, you know?24400:10:05,760 --> 00:10:09,600A lot of places, I think that was kind of the common practice,24500:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,560because they're like, well, listen, 19-year-old money24600:10:12,560 --> 00:10:16,320spends just as well as the rest y'alls.24700:10:16,320 --> 00:10:17,280She looks old enough.24800:10:17,280 --> 00:10:18,120Yeah.24900:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,040Old enough for what?25000:10:20,040 --> 00:10:21,560Singing karaoke.25100:10:21,560 --> 00:10:22,880Oh, it's going to say--25200:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,800like, you remember that scene in Superbad?25300:10:25,800 --> 00:10:26,800Shhh, party.25400:10:26,800 --> 00:10:32,880This new relationship also quickly devolves25500:10:32,880 --> 00:10:37,280into an abusive pattern as had been the case with Kelly25600:10:37,280 --> 00:10:41,720before she eventually left him, as well as seemingly25700:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,760every other woman before and since.25800:10:44,760 --> 00:10:49,120So that is the pattern is that it's a pattern of abuse.25900:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,440So a pattern of patterning of abuse.26000:10:52,440 --> 00:10:54,720Pattern of he's the problem.26100:10:54,720 --> 00:10:55,480Yeah.26200:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,480The escalation of the abuse did not stop26300:10:58,480 --> 00:11:03,320the couple from aloping to Las Vegas in 1994.26400:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,200Now, did you know there's a difference26500:11:05,200 --> 00:11:14,280between aloping in Las Vegas and aloping to Las Vegas?26600:11:14,280 --> 00:11:16,400I have no idea what you're saying.26700:11:16,400 --> 00:11:17,800I looked it up.26800:11:17,800 --> 00:11:19,720You're saying the same words, right?26900:11:19,720 --> 00:11:21,680That's what I thought.27000:11:21,680 --> 00:11:26,040But there was a little voice in the back of my head that said,27100:11:26,040 --> 00:11:27,960they're not the same.27200:11:27,960 --> 00:11:29,320Yeah, grammar nerd.27300:11:29,320 --> 00:11:30,160What?27400:11:30,160 --> 00:11:30,840I looked it up.27500:11:30,840 --> 00:11:35,320So if you are in this city where you then27600:11:35,320 --> 00:11:39,640ilope because you're basically just staying in the same city27700:11:39,640 --> 00:11:45,640and you're aloping in the sense that you're not having a wedding,27800:11:45,640 --> 00:11:46,160OK.27900:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,720That is aloping in Las Vegas.28000:11:49,720 --> 00:11:56,160If you alope to Las Vegas, you are somewhere in California28100:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,080as these lovebirds were.28200:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,600And then you're going to Vegas to alope.28300:12:02,600 --> 00:12:03,400I get it.28400:12:03,400 --> 00:12:04,640Yeah.28500:12:04,640 --> 00:12:06,840Fun fact.28600:12:06,840 --> 00:12:08,440Isn't really that fun.28700:12:08,440 --> 00:12:10,240But it is a fact.28800:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,000Foring facts with Taylor.28900:12:13,000 --> 00:12:14,600Thank you.29000:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,880At the time, she was 21 and he was 32.29100:12:18,880 --> 00:12:23,280The couple had a son in December of 1995.29200:12:23,280 --> 00:12:27,200But unfortunately, it did nothing to curb the abuse.29300:12:27,200 --> 00:12:31,520If anything, at a time when this young woman was perhaps29400:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,840the most vulnerable that she had been in her adult life,29500:12:35,840 --> 00:12:40,240it arguably grew far worse.29600:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,520He pushed her sexual boundaries, seemingly29700:12:43,520 --> 00:12:45,040wanting control of her.29800:12:45,040 --> 00:12:50,280And she may have actually inadvertently reinforced29900:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,600his desires and expectations.30000:12:53,600 --> 00:12:57,640And this is not victim blaming at all.30100:12:57,640 --> 00:13:01,880She's not responsible for what he might have incidentally30200:13:01,880 --> 00:13:06,440misconstrued in his own completely disturbed mind.30300:13:06,440 --> 00:13:10,200But some of the things that she did at that point30400:13:10,200 --> 00:13:15,560in their relationship may have let him think that these behaviors30500:13:15,560 --> 00:13:16,800were acceptable.30600:13:16,800 --> 00:13:18,280Oh, no.30700:13:18,280 --> 00:13:20,600And I think she's just very young.30800:13:20,600 --> 00:13:25,320She's vulnerable as just a 21-year-old woman30900:13:25,320 --> 00:13:27,480who's dating a significantly older man.31000:13:27,480 --> 00:13:31,440But she's also now pregnant with their first child.31100:13:31,440 --> 00:13:37,760So before they eventually split in July of 1996,31200:13:37,760 --> 00:13:41,080and while she was midway through her pregnancy,31300:13:41,080 --> 00:13:45,520Wayne raped her following an argument.31400:13:45,520 --> 00:13:50,440And that was at some point in 1995,31500:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,960though it doesn't appear that they called it quits for good31600:13:52,960 --> 00:13:54,360right away.31700:13:54,360 --> 00:14:00,280They were on again, off again, for much of 1995 and 1996.31800:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,720And it doesn't appear their eventual divorce31900:14:02,720 --> 00:14:07,720was final until some time later, quite a few years later.32000:14:07,720 --> 00:14:12,920Actually, their divorce papers were sealed once he was in law32100:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,440enforcement custody, which obviously just32200:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,640not coming to later as well.32300:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,640But more of that, I don't really32400:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,480want to talk about my serial killer ex.32500:14:24,480 --> 00:14:25,360Oh, right.32600:14:25,360 --> 00:14:26,160OK.32700:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,760Though she was extremely wary of protecting their son32800:14:29,760 --> 00:14:34,360in October 1997, Elizabeth took their young son32900:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,960to a pumpkin patch in California33000:14:36,960 --> 00:14:38,880so that Wayne could invite his friends33100:14:38,880 --> 00:14:40,600along to meet their son.33200:14:40,600 --> 00:14:42,800Oh, pumpkin patch.33300:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,720I know, spooky season.33400:14:45,720 --> 00:14:49,760There are so many reasons why this case--33500:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,960I've actually had it on my radar for a little while.33600:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,840But all of a sudden, the star is aligned.33700:14:54,840 --> 00:14:59,520And I think the pumpkin patch, that's just for two33800:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,320at its timing, was spooky season.33900:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,000But there's something else, and I think you'll see why.34000:15:04,000 --> 00:15:05,080Oh.34100:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,320I have to think she might have been unaware34200:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,640that following their initial break up34300:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,280and leaving with their young son in tow34400:15:13,280 --> 00:15:16,800that Wayne had not only struggled to hold down a job,34500:15:16,800 --> 00:15:21,840but that he had also been arrested for animal cruelty.34600:15:21,840 --> 00:15:23,240What?34700:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,720Ooh, dick.34800:15:25,720 --> 00:15:26,840Yes.34900:15:26,840 --> 00:15:31,720So I think you can tell what trigger warning is appropriate here.35000:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,040And if you want to skip this part of the story,35100:15:34,040 --> 00:15:38,680it's fairly brief, so you should be missing only maybe35200:15:38,680 --> 00:15:40,840a minute or two.35300:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,680And I've actually taken a lot of the details out35400:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,720because I know that they would be particularly upsetting35500:15:46,720 --> 00:15:47,800to you right now.35600:15:47,800 --> 00:15:49,560I'm scowling.35700:15:49,560 --> 00:15:50,080I know.35800:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,560Well, my dog is dead, Kate Len.35900:15:52,560 --> 00:15:53,160I know.36000:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,360It's literally the first thing I thought about.36100:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,480I read this on the plane to Austin.36200:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,920And I was like, mother fuck, I am too deep into this.36300:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,160I am not starting over.36400:16:05,160 --> 00:16:09,840So I have sanitized this particular section36500:16:09,840 --> 00:16:14,640of some of the details that would have made editing perhaps36600:16:14,640 --> 00:16:16,200a bit of a challenge.36700:16:16,200 --> 00:16:17,200OK.36800:16:17,200 --> 00:16:18,200OK.36900:16:18,200 --> 00:16:19,400OK.37000:16:19,400 --> 00:16:20,200Thank you.37100:16:20,200 --> 00:16:24,600Just remember that when you read this or you're hearing it,37200:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,000and you're like, this is so fucking awful.37300:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,880And I'm like, it's so much worse.37400:16:29,880 --> 00:16:30,720OK.37500:16:30,720 --> 00:16:35,200At the time, he was working as a tow truck driver.37600:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,440The best I can decipher, it appears37700:16:37,440 --> 00:16:42,040that the animal in question was one of his employers guard dogs37800:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,520and lived onside at the tow yard.37900:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,560And according to some accounts, both of the dogs38000:16:47,560 --> 00:16:49,920were barking at all hours.38100:16:49,920 --> 00:16:51,920They're guard dogs.38200:16:51,920 --> 00:16:56,560At the time, Wayne was living next to the tow yard.38300:16:56,560 --> 00:16:58,920Wayne alleged that he had repeatedly38400:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,520warned the owners that he would kill the dog38500:17:02,520 --> 00:17:04,680if it stepped foot on his property.38600:17:04,680 --> 00:17:06,240Wow.38700:17:06,240 --> 00:17:07,800He worked for these people?38800:17:07,800 --> 00:17:08,680Yep.38900:17:08,680 --> 00:17:14,160I did not know that in my initial reading of the account,39000:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,520but I've had to-- yay.39100:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,680Read about it several times now.39200:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,320So cool.39300:17:23,320 --> 00:17:25,800Yeah, that's what I came to understand.39400:17:25,800 --> 00:17:27,080Great employee.39500:17:27,080 --> 00:17:28,720Yes.39600:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,520Those may not have been his exact words,39700:17:32,520 --> 00:17:39,640but he did mean it, whatever he said at the time, unfortunately.39800:17:39,640 --> 00:17:43,240He was supposedly caring for his ex's dog39900:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,400and feared that it would be hurt by the aggressive animal40000:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,560if it intruded onto his property.40100:17:49,560 --> 00:17:54,120Which seems like a very convenient excuse.40200:17:54,120 --> 00:17:55,760She didn't trust you with her kid.40300:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,040I'm not sure why she would have left her dog with you,40400:17:58,040 --> 00:17:58,960but whatever.40500:17:58,960 --> 00:18:00,480Interesting.40600:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,600When this all played out as poorly as you might think,40700:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,040in the end, and the dog from the tow yard40800:18:06,040 --> 00:18:10,160died by Wayne's hand or rather gun,40900:18:10,160 --> 00:18:15,960he was sentenced to just five days jail time for killing it.41000:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,480Of the incident, his former boss stated,41100:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,920he was upset because the dog was barking.41200:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,600That man declined to give his name, by the way,41300:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,680so not just women declining to be associated with him.41400:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,560Makes sense.41500:18:32,560 --> 00:18:38,280Quoting further from the bus, he kept firing rounds41600:18:38,280 --> 00:18:42,240in the dog after it was dead.41700:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,280It's unclear whether he actually served the time41800:18:45,280 --> 00:18:47,720for killing the dog.41900:18:47,720 --> 00:18:48,840Why?42000:18:48,840 --> 00:18:51,560He should be in jail forever.42100:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,560I mean, spoilers.42200:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,120For the dog, though.42300:18:56,120 --> 00:18:57,360Yeah.42400:18:57,360 --> 00:19:00,480Wayne's mental health had seriously declined42500:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,840as has probably become abundantly clear.42600:19:03,840 --> 00:19:05,560I hope.42700:19:05,560 --> 00:19:06,560Yeah.42800:19:06,560 --> 00:19:11,440If you're shooting over killing a dog, something is wrong with you.42900:19:11,440 --> 00:19:12,920Just a thought.43000:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,640His frustration over his failed marriage,43100:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,040living in a trailer without his son43200:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,920surrounded by the ever-present grinding noise43300:19:20,920 --> 00:19:24,280of his new professional endeavor,43400:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,840working at a cement plant as a truck driver,43500:19:27,840 --> 00:19:31,320whatever it might have been, he was really actually43600:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,840beginning to snap.43700:19:33,840 --> 00:19:38,360Then in October of 1997, Wayne decided43800:19:38,360 --> 00:19:40,480to pick up a hitchhiker.43900:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,120Oh, OK.44000:19:42,120 --> 00:19:44,200Yeah.44100:19:44,200 --> 00:19:48,000And the hitchhiker was the murderer, right?44200:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,480No.44300:19:50,480 --> 00:19:51,320Yeah.44400:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,240So the pumpkin patch thing wasn't the only thing44500:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,600happening in October.44600:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,880This young woman was in her early 20s44700:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,440and had dark brown hair.44800:20:01,440 --> 00:20:06,960He introduced himself as Adam, which was an alter ego.44900:20:06,960 --> 00:20:08,240Was it?45000:20:08,240 --> 00:20:09,040Yep.45100:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,560Which is never a good sign.45200:20:11,560 --> 00:20:12,160No.45300:20:12,160 --> 00:20:16,360Very few people can pull off that kind of nonsense.45400:20:16,360 --> 00:20:19,600And let's just say he's a far cry from Yonsei45500:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,440calling herself Sasha Fierce.45600:20:22,440 --> 00:20:23,440OK?45700:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,720Like, no.45800:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,440Maybe having introduced her to an alter ego45900:20:28,440 --> 00:20:33,520was his way of disassociating from his actions.46000:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,480It doesn't seem too far-fetched, but even46100:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,880if I was a licensed forensic psychologist,46200:20:39,880 --> 00:20:41,800I've certainly never spoken to the man.46300:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,240So it's hard to say.46400:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,520In any case, what could have started off46500:20:46,520 --> 00:20:50,360as a consensual encounter, though I tend to doubt it,46600:20:50,360 --> 00:20:56,520quickly became rough, resulting in Wayne choking her.46700:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,920He stabbed her repeatedly with a hunting knife46800:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,880before beheading and dismembering her.46900:21:04,880 --> 00:21:09,960Well, holy shit, that escalated real quickly.47000:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,000So he was planning this, right?47100:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,360Like, I don't know if he was planning the entire thing,47200:21:15,360 --> 00:21:17,520but he had a knife handy?47300:21:17,520 --> 00:21:19,720I mean, there's definitely--47400:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,480there's an element of premeditation.47500:21:22,480 --> 00:21:24,200We'll say that.47600:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,600Because only her torso was discovered in the Ryan slew,47700:21:28,600 --> 00:21:32,880just north of Ureca, California, she remained unidentified47800:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,920even after additional remains were discovered47900:21:35,920 --> 00:21:40,560in January of 1998 on a different beach.48000:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,720She had likely died less than a handful of days prior48100:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,400to the initial discovery of her remains.48200:21:47,400 --> 00:21:52,080Then, almost exactly a year later, down to the day,48300:21:52,080 --> 00:21:56,240in October of 1998, another young woman's remains48400:21:56,240 --> 00:22:01,400were discovered, that of Patricia and Tames.48500:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,360Wayne was still working as a truck driver at this time.48600:22:05,360 --> 00:22:08,920Patricia had been an upper middle class college student48700:22:08,920 --> 00:22:10,840until she dropped out.48800:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,920Since then, she had been working as a sex worker48900:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,160and struggling with substance abuse.49000:22:17,160 --> 00:22:21,640A friend stated that she had gotten really into crystal meth,49100:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,800and it had since become her primary objective49200:22:24,800 --> 00:22:30,080to support that habit, which is generally the case.49300:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,600That is what we call addiction.49400:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,840After Wayne and Patricia came to an agreement regarding49500:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,640the terms of the intended encounter,49600:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,960she joined him in the sleeper cabin of his truck.49700:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,680However, Wayne went off script when he began strangling her,49800:22:46,680 --> 00:22:50,480eventually killing Patricia.49900:22:50,480 --> 00:22:55,840Her body was found in an aqueduct in San Bernardino, California.50000:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,000She was 29 years old at the time of her death,50100:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,520which would be determined at some point in the course50200:23:01,520 --> 00:23:06,480of the investigation to have taken place in Hesperia, California,50300:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,480sometime after she was picked up in Victorville.50400:23:10,480 --> 00:23:15,960The entire distance she traveled between getting picked up50500:23:15,960 --> 00:23:20,160her death and the callous disposal of her body was roughly,50600:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,840it was just under 40 miles.50700:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,960So that's not a long trip.50800:23:26,960 --> 00:23:28,760When authorities arrived at the scene,50900:23:28,760 --> 00:23:30,880it was immediately readily apparent51000:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,400that the young woman had been murdered.51100:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,080Oddly, one of her breasts had been removed51200:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,720and could not be located.51300:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,120Oh, why is that a thing?51400:23:44,120 --> 00:23:45,920It's a really good question.51500:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,160Excuse the turn of phrase here,51600:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,520but we're going to put a pin in that for now.51700:23:50,520 --> 00:23:56,160OK, because first we need to circle back to the months of May,51800:23:56,160 --> 00:24:01,320on through September of that same year, 1998.51900:24:01,320 --> 00:24:06,240On June 2nd of 1998, near button willow, California,52000:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,280another adorable fucking name town,52100:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,200another young woman's body was found.52200:24:12,200 --> 00:24:16,200Tina Renee Gibbs, a Tacoma Washington native,52300:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,360was 26 at the time of her death.52400:24:19,360 --> 00:24:24,560She had been killed on May 16th of 1998, near Las Vegas,52500:24:24,560 --> 00:24:28,160where she had been working as a sex worker.52600:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,360Later in court, both her mother and stepfather52700:24:31,360 --> 00:24:34,800would reflect on her earlier years.52800:24:34,800 --> 00:24:36,680Long before she'd begun a relationship52900:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,360with someone her parents didn't approve of53000:24:39,360 --> 00:24:43,840and eventually fallen into the trap of addiction.53100:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,440As a teenager, she loved family camping trips53200:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,240and even went along with her mother53300:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,360to visit nursing home patients.53400:24:51,360 --> 00:24:54,160Oh, that's really sweet.53500:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,240Just fuck me up.53600:24:56,240 --> 00:25:00,480Learning of her murder was surely one version of the nightmare53700:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,640that they'd already envisaged for years.53800:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,920I can't imagine what all had been going through their mind53900:25:07,920 --> 00:25:08,920prior to that.54000:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,800It's hard to watch someone go down that path.54100:25:11,800 --> 00:25:12,920Yeah.54200:25:12,920 --> 00:25:17,840And then eventually, they probably stopped hearing from her54300:25:17,840 --> 00:25:22,840for a period of time and that's got to be difficult54400:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,360but in a completely different way.54500:25:26,360 --> 00:25:28,840Those several months had passed between the first54600:25:28,840 --> 00:25:30,280and second murders.54700:25:30,280 --> 00:25:36,000In 1998, things began to escalate quickly.54800:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,200Didn't they already escalate though?54900:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,720Yeah, we're really kind of just in a pattern55000:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,360of continuing escalation.55100:25:45,360 --> 00:25:47,760You know me, I hate escalators.55200:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,200Can we just get off the fucking escalator?55300:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,200You actually hate escalators and escalation.55400:25:54,200 --> 00:25:55,040Yes.55500:25:55,040 --> 00:25:56,800Yeah, accurate.55600:25:56,800 --> 00:26:02,280On September 25th, 25 year old Lynette Deon White,55700:26:02,280 --> 00:26:07,600a Fontana, California was killed in Ontario, California,55800:26:07,600 --> 00:26:12,360not to be confused with the one in Canada, just to be clear.55900:26:12,360 --> 00:26:13,200Or Oregon.56000:26:13,200 --> 00:26:13,800Yep.56100:26:13,800 --> 00:26:15,360There's Ontario all over.56200:26:15,360 --> 00:26:17,360All over the place.56300:26:17,360 --> 00:26:20,160That was before it's believed her body was thrust56400:26:20,160 --> 00:26:26,840from a moving vehicle into a ditch in Lodi, California.56500:26:26,840 --> 00:26:28,560Wow, how?56600:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,040Not really sure.56700:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,600It's not a visual that I personally want to dwell on.56800:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,880Yeah, I don't want to visualize it, but I'm just like the,56900:26:37,880 --> 00:26:43,040how, how, the logistics of it did one person do that, you know?57000:26:43,040 --> 00:26:48,040Yeah, it's puzzling on that end and how they know that.57100:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,640I want to think less about that.57200:26:51,640 --> 00:26:52,600Yeah.57300:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,680She had been dead for several days when her body was discovered57400:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,920as evidenced by the advanced state of decomposition57500:27:00,920 --> 00:27:06,760that would later be noted in the autopsy findings, which is pretty horrifying57600:27:06,760 --> 00:27:08,760for a number of reasons.57700:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,760Not the least of which is that this is a human being.57800:27:11,760 --> 00:27:16,920You just brutally murdered and to be so incredibly callous57900:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,760with how you then cast out her remains.58000:27:19,760 --> 00:27:25,720So I'm glad we kind of focused in on that same point there.58100:27:25,720 --> 00:27:26,640Yeah.58200:27:26,640 --> 00:27:27,880I don't get it.58300:27:27,880 --> 00:27:29,880I can't wrap my brain around that.58400:27:30,880 --> 00:27:36,880Pretty sure that's a good thing, but I hate it.58500:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,880But I'm also considering what most of us, if we're familiar58600:27:41,880 --> 00:27:47,880with the city of Lodai, likely associated with, which is wine.58700:27:47,880 --> 00:27:49,880Mmm.58800:27:49,880 --> 00:27:50,880Yeah.58900:27:50,880 --> 00:27:51,880Which wine?59000:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,880Lots of wine, actually.59100:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,880It's funny you mentioned that.59200:27:55,880 --> 00:27:56,880Yeah.59300:27:56,880 --> 00:27:57,880Lots of wine.59400:27:57,880 --> 00:28:04,880So while Lodai is busy growing roughly 40% of the wine grapes59500:28:04,880 --> 00:28:09,880produced in the entire state of California, investigators59600:28:09,880 --> 00:28:14,880are busy using fingerprint analysis to identify this latest victim.59700:28:14,880 --> 00:28:19,880Is it important for you to know that Lodai is the wine grape capital59800:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,880of the world, at least according to the city59900:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,880of Lodai's local government website?60000:28:25,880 --> 00:28:26,880Not really.60100:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,880I think it's the harsh contrast between these two aspects60200:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,880of Lodai that are just hitting me in relation to this case.60300:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,880And you know how your girl loves a fun fact?60400:28:38,880 --> 00:28:39,880Yeah.60500:28:39,880 --> 00:28:41,880You know, just to try to lighten the mood.60600:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,880And if it has to do with wine so much the better.60700:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,880It was better than your boring fact earlier.60800:28:48,880 --> 00:28:49,880Yeah.60900:28:49,880 --> 00:28:50,880Can we not make that a thing?61000:28:50,880 --> 00:28:51,880My boring fact?61100:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,880I give boring facts all the time.61200:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,880But here's the thing.61300:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,880Okay, because seriously Lodai, maybe watch your back61400:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,880because I feel as though there are some very well known wine61500:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,880capitals that may be giving you some side eye.61600:29:08,880 --> 00:29:14,880Like, I don't know, Bordeaux, located in France,61700:29:14,880 --> 00:29:19,880Adelaide, the southern capital city of Australia.61800:29:19,880 --> 00:29:21,880Ooh, light.61900:29:21,880 --> 00:29:23,880That's the best I can do.62000:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,880And then, you know, the capital city of Lodai,62100:29:26,880 --> 00:29:28,880the capital city of Lodai,62200:29:28,880 --> 00:29:30,880the capital city of Lodai,62300:29:30,880 --> 00:29:32,880the capital city of Lodai,62400:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,880the capital city of Lodai,62500:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,880the capital city of Lodai,62600:29:36,880 --> 00:29:38,880the capital city of Lodai,62700:29:38,880 --> 00:29:39,880the capital city of Lodai,62800:29:39,880 --> 00:29:41,880the capital city of Lodai,62900:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,880the capital city of Lodai,63000:29:43,880 --> 00:29:45,880the capital city of Lodai,63100:29:45,880 --> 00:29:47,880the capital city of Lodai,63200:29:47,880 --> 00:29:48,880the capital city of Lodai,63300:29:48,880 --> 00:29:49,880the capital city of Lodai,63400:29:49,880 --> 00:29:50,880the capital city of Lodai,63500:29:50,880 --> 00:29:51,880the capital city of Lodai,63600:29:51,880 --> 00:29:52,880the capital city of Lodai,63700:29:52,880 --> 00:29:54,880you know, sleep with one eye open.63800:29:54,880 --> 00:29:55,880(laughs)63900:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,880Hopefully you've enjoyed this segment of Wine Facts64000:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,880because it's about to get really dark here,64100:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,880because there's a little bit more that we need to discuss64200:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,880in relation to Lynette.64300:30:08,880 --> 00:30:10,880Unlike some of the other victims64400:30:10,880 --> 00:30:12,880that had been discovered up to this point,64500:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,880Lynette's family stated that she was not actively involved64600:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,880in any form of substance abuse64700:30:19,880 --> 00:30:21,880or sex work at the time of her death.64800:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,880It shouldn't matter because of course that does64900:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,880not make a victim less dead.65000:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,880Lynette's mother stated that although Ford himself65100:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,880had told investigators that she had engaged in sex work,65200:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,880her daughter was actually just beginning65300:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,880a new role in sales at the time of her death.65400:30:40,880 --> 00:30:41,880Aww.65500:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,880Lynette had last been seen by a family member65600:30:44,880 --> 00:30:46,880on September 20th.65700:30:46,880 --> 00:30:48,880She was headed to a nearby store65800:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,880to get milk for her baby.65900:30:51,880 --> 00:30:53,880Lynette had four children,66000:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,880but this was her youngest at just nine months old.66100:30:57,880 --> 00:30:59,880She left to go to the store,66200:30:59,880 --> 00:31:03,880and then come back with the babies.66300:31:03,880 --> 00:31:05,880Mm-hmm.66400:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,880Though her mother's comments had focused on66500:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,880sharing the real story about who Lynette was,66600:31:12,880 --> 00:31:14,880her father wanted everyone to know66700:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,880that he did not have a kind66800:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,880or even vaguely neutral word to share66900:31:20,880 --> 00:31:22,880about his daughter's killer.67000:31:22,880 --> 00:31:24,880And as you might suspect,67100:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,880he hoped that Ford would be shown no mercy,67200:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,880saying, "I want to see him dead.67300:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,880He's already dead to me."67400:31:33,880 --> 00:31:35,880Yeah.67500:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,880But I mean, who could blame him?67600:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,880Not only do these poor people have to come to grips67700:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,880with the horrific tragedy of what happened to their daughter,67800:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,880but I'm sure they're the ones who will have to explain it67900:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,880to all of their daughter's children.68000:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,880How do you process your own grief68100:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,880when you're faced with such a gut-wrenching loss68200:31:59,880 --> 00:32:01,880and then help your grandchildren68300:32:01,880 --> 00:32:03,880to hopefully do the same in a way68400:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,880that doesn't just rip your entire heart68500:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,880and family apart?68600:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,880As horrendous as all of this is,68700:32:12,880 --> 00:32:18,880there are still a few more grim details to wrap this case up.68800:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,880In early November, 1998,68900:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,880Wayne walked into a sheriff's station69000:32:24,880 --> 00:32:29,880in Northern California with his brother Rodney.69100:32:29,880 --> 00:32:31,880After initially confessing his crimes69200:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,880to his brother the day prior,69300:32:34,880 --> 00:32:36,880Rodney had spent the remainder of the day69400:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,880trying to convince his brother to turn himself into the authorities.69500:32:40,880 --> 00:32:42,880Wow.69600:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,880Rodney.69700:32:44,880 --> 00:32:46,880It wasn't just his brother Rodney and his Bible69800:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,880that he brought with him, though.69900:32:50,880 --> 00:32:52,880Uh-oh.70000:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,880After tearfully confessing to the murders of four women,70100:32:55,880 --> 00:33:00,880he revealed a plastic bag containing a severed breast70200:33:00,880 --> 00:33:02,880that would later be identified70300:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,880as belonging to his final confirmed victim,70400:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,880Patricia and Thomas.70500:33:09,880 --> 00:33:11,880That's not what I thought you were going to say.70600:33:11,880 --> 00:33:13,880I forgot about that part.70700:33:13,880 --> 00:33:15,880Yeah.70800:33:15,880 --> 00:33:17,880I did say put a pin in it,70900:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,880which if you have read as much about this case as I have,71000:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,880I'm sorry because that's something I left out,71100:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,880but it's really...71200:33:27,880 --> 00:33:28,880I don't want to know.71300:33:28,880 --> 00:33:29,880Yep. No, you don't.71400:33:29,880 --> 00:33:30,880No?71500:33:30,880 --> 00:33:31,880No? No, you don't.71600:33:31,880 --> 00:33:36,880Oh my gosh, Rodney and his brother had to hear all of this.71700:33:36,880 --> 00:33:37,880Yep.71800:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,880And I don't know how much detail he went into with his brother71900:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,880before he went to the authorities,72000:33:44,880 --> 00:33:49,880but just hearing like that your brother committed a crime72100:33:49,880 --> 00:33:51,880and I'm sure he knew it was murder.72200:33:51,880 --> 00:33:52,880Oh, he knew. Yeah.72300:33:52,880 --> 00:33:53,880Yeah. He definitely knew it was murder.72400:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,880That's why he convinced him to turn himself in.72500:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,880That's just crazy.72600:34:00,880 --> 00:34:02,880Yeah.72700:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,880Wayne told authorities he turned himself in72800:34:05,880 --> 00:34:10,880so he wouldn't kill his ex-wife and leave his son in orphan.72900:34:10,880 --> 00:34:11,880Wow.73000:34:11,880 --> 00:34:17,880That kind of reminds me of not the mother's day.73100:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,880He had a very severe mental health problems73200:34:20,880 --> 00:34:22,880and he tried to turn himself in a few times73300:34:22,880 --> 00:34:24,880because he didn't want to hurt somebody.73400:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,880Yes. And that he was ashamed of what he was doing.73500:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,880His anger was mostly directed against his wife.73600:34:32,880 --> 00:34:40,880But apparently he was only becoming angrier with her each day73700:34:40,880 --> 00:34:42,880for keeping their son from him.73800:34:42,880 --> 00:34:47,880His lengthy confession appeared by the assessment of law enforcement73900:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,880to indicate that his remorse was earnest74000:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,880and his willingness to share details of the crimes74100:34:55,880 --> 00:35:01,880as well as locations of various pieces of significant74200:35:01,880 --> 00:35:07,880forensic evidence seemed almost remarkable to them.74300:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,880So it wasn't just like a fake confession type thing.74400:35:10,880 --> 00:35:15,880It was like he, I mean, he had a bag of evidence with him.74500:35:15,880 --> 00:35:21,880Right. And there was more that he turned over to them via74600:35:21,880 --> 00:35:26,880the statement that he made in his confession.74700:35:26,880 --> 00:35:34,880This is where we start to sort of unpack what I talked about in part one74800:35:34,880 --> 00:35:40,880where he's often referred to as like one of the serial killers74900:35:40,880 --> 00:35:42,880like with the conscience.75000:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,880That's right. You did say that.75100:35:45,880 --> 00:35:50,880I kind of lost track of that during all of the horrific things I was hearing.75200:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,880Right. Yeah. Who could blame you?75300:35:54,880 --> 00:36:01,880Honestly. I think it sounds like some of the local law enforcement75400:36:01,880 --> 00:36:03,880that spoke with him.75500:36:03,880 --> 00:36:08,880It's sort of, I don't know how to say it other than it almost was like75600:36:08,880 --> 00:36:10,880it was gaslighting them.75700:36:10,880 --> 00:36:12,880Kind of fucked them up a little bit because they're like,75800:36:12,880 --> 00:36:14,880how does somebody do this?75900:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,880But also like he legitimately seems to understand76000:36:18,880 --> 00:36:23,880and actually be emotionally affected by the fact that it was76100:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,880so clearly wrong.76200:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,880And I don't know where I land on that.76300:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,880It's, I wasn't there. I didn't see him confess.76400:36:32,880 --> 00:36:34,880But it's crazy confusing.76500:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,880But you have to imagine that he did feel that way because he went76600:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,880and confessed or like they weren't putting any heat on him or anything.76700:36:42,880 --> 00:36:47,880So yeah, I mean it's, I think it's a tough one.76800:36:47,880 --> 00:36:53,880It's not as black and white as probably a lot of what we read76900:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,880and what we hear about would maybe lead us to believe.77000:36:57,880 --> 00:36:59,880Yeah, it's very confusing.77100:36:59,880 --> 00:37:00,880I don't know.77200:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,880Doesn't make it any less horrible and he's a disgusting dickball.77300:37:04,880 --> 00:37:06,880Yeah, absolutely.77400:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,880He is from under cheese.77500:37:09,880 --> 00:37:10,880Who?77600:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,880He apparently even implicated himself into other murders,77700:37:14,880 --> 00:37:20,880San Bernardino and San Joaquin counties just in case.77800:37:20,880 --> 00:37:21,880Just in case.77900:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,880It was the beginning of, say like the whole sentence.78000:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,880Sometimes it's hard to like piece it together.78100:37:28,880 --> 00:37:34,880I usually can, but that's why I try to go back like at least a few words.78200:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,880I was like, I want to say the whole thing again.78300:37:37,880 --> 00:37:39,880That would take eight.78400:37:39,880 --> 00:37:45,880He apparently even implicated himself into other murders78500:37:45,880 --> 00:37:50,880in neighboring San Bernardino and San Joaquin counties.78600:37:50,880 --> 00:37:51,880Damn.78700:37:51,880 --> 00:37:57,880He was held on murder charges in Humboldt County on a million dollars bail.78800:37:57,880 --> 00:37:59,880Oh my god, a million dollars.78900:37:59,880 --> 00:38:01,880That's a lot.79000:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,880I mean, going back to 1998.79100:38:04,880 --> 00:38:05,880Yeah.79200:38:05,880 --> 00:38:11,880I mean, now I feel like that we wouldn't even think of that as really being as big of a deal.79300:38:11,880 --> 00:38:16,880I know the change spare change you have in a jar in your closet, right?79400:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,880That's what I used to buy my townhouse.79500:38:19,880 --> 00:38:21,880No, I mean, it is crazy.79600:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,880Obviously this was like 25 years ago, but it's cute.79700:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,880You think you can get a townhouse for a million dollars.79800:38:29,880 --> 00:38:31,880Yeah, like a small one.79900:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,880I was singing more like a shack in someone's backyard.80000:38:35,880 --> 00:38:37,880Oh, I mean, it's not quite that bad.80100:38:37,880 --> 00:38:39,880I'm exaggerating.80200:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,880In the end, though he claimed to have killed only four women,80300:38:43,880 --> 00:38:49,880it's of course possible that there are more unconfirmed victims of Wayne Adam Ford.80400:38:49,880 --> 00:38:51,880Do you really think though?80500:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,880Do you really think that he didn't confess to all of them?80600:38:55,880 --> 00:39:00,880I think it's interesting that there are two in these neighboring counties80700:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,880that he implicated himself, you know?80800:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,880And yet they are not confirmed victims of his.80900:39:08,880 --> 00:39:10,880Oh, right.81000:39:10,880 --> 00:39:15,880I do think that because of something we're going to talk about here towards the very end,81100:39:15,880 --> 00:39:24,880I think law enforcement is not quite done necessarily examining certain aspects of the case.81200:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,880So it's possible that there could be more updates.81300:39:27,880 --> 00:39:28,880Okay.81400:39:28,880 --> 00:39:34,880So there was four confirmed two that he claimed he could have done.81500:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,880Yeah, there's two that he's implicated in.81600:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,880And that's a very particular choice set of four.81700:39:41,880 --> 00:39:43,880Yes, implicated.81800:39:43,880 --> 00:39:52,880So I'm not sure if he just mentioned having maybe run across someone that matched a description of another missing individual.81900:39:52,880 --> 00:39:57,880It could be that symbol, to be honest, but I'm not sure.82000:39:57,880 --> 00:40:05,880I'm not sure what the nature of that element, that segment of the conversation that they had with him was.82100:40:05,880 --> 00:40:07,880It's so hard to say.82200:40:07,880 --> 00:40:08,880I know.82300:40:08,880 --> 00:40:10,880I just felt like he was confessing so much.82400:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,880He would just like confess to anything and everything he'd ever done.82500:40:14,880 --> 00:40:15,880Yeah.82600:40:15,880 --> 00:40:25,880And part of me was like, well, maybe it's better if I mean, I want everyone that he's harmed to be able to, you know,82700:40:25,880 --> 00:40:31,880get some form of justice, but maybe it's better if he doesn't rattle off.82800:40:31,880 --> 00:40:42,880You know, at a certain point, there's a number of serial killers that have claimed numbers far higher than what we can, I mean, even begin to substantiate.82900:40:42,880 --> 00:40:52,880And then it makes people just, you know, theorize and we've got these conspiracy theories that ultimately are not very helpful.83000:40:52,880 --> 00:41:00,880No. In keeping, keeping the case alive in a way that helps them to be solved.83100:41:00,880 --> 00:41:02,880You know, there's nothing practical about that.83200:41:02,880 --> 00:41:03,880That makes sense.83300:41:03,880 --> 00:41:04,880Right.83400:41:04,880 --> 00:41:05,880Yeah.83500:41:05,880 --> 00:41:10,880I mean, he didn't seem like he'd be very boastful to lie, but who knows?83600:41:10,880 --> 00:41:12,880And I want you to remember that you said that.83700:41:12,880 --> 00:41:13,880Okay.83800:41:13,880 --> 00:41:14,880Yeah.83900:41:14,880 --> 00:41:30,880Though two of his victims remained unidentified initially, when his case went to trial, the jury found him guilty on four counts of first degree murder in 2006 and sentenced him to death.84000:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,880So two of the victims weren't identified.84100:41:33,880 --> 00:41:35,880Oh, my goodness.84200:41:35,880 --> 00:41:36,880Okay.84300:41:36,880 --> 00:41:42,880He currently resides at the San Quentin State Prison in California.84400:41:42,880 --> 00:41:55,880As for his ex-wife, Kelly, according to an article dating back to April, 2021, she moved on with a man named Bob that she began dating after her split with Wayne.84500:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,880They eventually married and had a child together.84600:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,880However, from what I can tell, it seems like the couple didn't last.84700:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,880That's based on that same article.84800:42:05,880 --> 00:42:17,880Sadly, she also stated that she had been diagnosed with a very aggressive form of cancer and was given about 18 months to live.84900:42:17,880 --> 00:42:31,880She talked about how she still carried a lot of guilt, but that at the time of her 2001 interview, she spoke out in hopes of helping someone in a similar situation.85000:42:31,880 --> 00:42:38,880Unfortunately, Kelly lost the battle with cancer and passed away in 2020.85100:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,880No.85200:42:41,880 --> 00:42:57,880Given the fact that the divorce records from Wayne's other ex-wife, his marriage to Elizabeth, those records were sealed and her family has reportedly declined to comment publicly regarding Wayne's crimes,85300:42:57,880 --> 00:43:02,880or really much of anything else following his arrest.85400:43:02,880 --> 00:43:12,880There's not really any additional information or updates that I was able to find about her or their son that she raised with out-wing.85500:43:12,880 --> 00:43:20,880Gosh, hopefully they're just like in so much therapy and are doing so good.85600:43:20,880 --> 00:43:22,880Yeah.85700:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,880Of course, by now he's an adult.85800:43:25,880 --> 00:43:27,880Yeah.85900:43:27,880 --> 00:43:49,880So it's funny because we look at these things in exactly the same manner because my next sentence, hopefully without the continued influence of his violent father, he has been able to grow into a mature and stable man.86000:43:49,880 --> 00:43:58,880I didn't pull at that thread. They have clearly tried to make an effort to keep themselves clear of...86100:43:58,880 --> 00:44:05,880I mean, even before he was arrested, I mean, years before, she was like, "I'm out."86200:44:05,880 --> 00:44:06,880Yeah.86300:44:06,880 --> 00:44:07,880So...86400:44:07,880 --> 00:44:08,880I get it, man.86500:44:08,880 --> 00:44:09,880Yeah.86600:44:09,880 --> 00:44:11,880I think it's understandable.86700:44:11,880 --> 00:44:23,880I found another article that shared a story about when Wayne had an encounter with a man that worked in a Christian book and music shop.86800:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,880Remember, he took his Bible with him.86900:44:26,880 --> 00:44:28,880Right, okay.87000:44:28,880 --> 00:44:34,880Wayne really opened up to him about his struggles throughout his life up to that point,87100:44:34,880 --> 00:44:42,880and even revealed reportedly that he was very concerned that he didn't have a conscience.87200:44:42,880 --> 00:44:44,880Oh.87300:44:44,880 --> 00:44:50,880Before we wrap up, I wanted to share two statements that Wayne has made.87400:44:50,880 --> 00:44:56,880The first as the time of his arrest was fast approaching.87500:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,880I hurt some people.87600:44:59,880 --> 00:45:02,880I don't want to hurt anyone anymore.87700:45:02,880 --> 00:45:07,880Once you see what I have in my pocket, you'll know.87800:45:07,880 --> 00:45:13,880This latter statement was made following his arrest.87900:45:13,880 --> 00:45:18,880Most serial killers are proud of their work.88000:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,880Not me.88100:45:21,880 --> 00:45:27,880Well, that is just so...it's so crazy and sad.88200:45:27,880 --> 00:45:36,880Because like his life is ruined, he ruined so many other people's lives for literally no reason.88300:45:36,880 --> 00:45:38,880One last thing.88400:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,880Maybe you'll recall earlier in the episode.88500:45:41,880 --> 00:45:48,880I said that two of his victims could not initially be identified.88600:45:48,880 --> 00:45:49,880Yeah.88700:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,880Well, obviously up until now,88800:45:52,880 --> 00:46:00,880at least if you were paying attention and even if you were and you missed it, I've shared the names of three out of the four,88900:46:00,880 --> 00:46:02,880so you might have been a little confused.89000:46:02,880 --> 00:46:12,880Sadly, the very first woman he killed was a hitchhiker, who remained unidentified until just months ago.89100:46:12,880 --> 00:46:15,880Wow, months ago.89200:46:15,880 --> 00:46:26,880In June of 2023, Wayne's initial victim was the final of his confirmed victims to be identified.89300:46:26,880 --> 00:46:34,880Carrie and Cummings was identified using DNA profiling in combination with genealogy matching.89400:46:34,880 --> 00:46:39,880Wow, we're coming for you.89500:46:39,880 --> 00:46:51,880Finally, the 25-year-old Eugene Oregon native was identified through the partnership of the Humboldt County Sheriff's Office Cold Case Unit,89600:46:51,880 --> 00:46:58,880the California Department of Justice DNA Lab, and AUTHRUM Inc.89700:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,880Wow, that is so cool.89800:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,880Technology, man.89900:47:04,880 --> 00:47:11,880When she came back to 1997, Carrie had struggled with untreated mental illness.90000:47:11,880 --> 00:47:18,880When she refused to return home to her family, she stayed with friends in the area for a time.90100:47:18,880 --> 00:47:29,880These are the details that prevented Carrie from ever even being listed as a missing person or entered into any similar databases.90200:47:29,880 --> 00:47:35,880That's going to make it really hard to identify somebody if they're not even reported missing.90300:47:35,880 --> 00:47:40,880That didn't stop her family from trying to find her.90400:47:40,880 --> 00:47:46,880Wow, they searched the name-is-website when the internet was new.90500:47:46,880 --> 00:47:47,880Holy shit.90600:47:47,880 --> 00:47:51,880Remember, she went missing before Y2K.90700:47:51,880 --> 00:47:53,880Wow.90800:47:53,880 --> 00:47:58,880And they even hired a private detective at one point.90900:47:58,880 --> 00:48:04,880Now they can finally put her to rest with a proper burial.91000:48:04,880 --> 00:48:10,880It's crazy she was the first and then the last to be identified.91100:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,880Yeah.91200:48:13,880 --> 00:48:15,880I was like, "How does that happen?"91300:48:15,880 --> 00:48:20,880But remember, it's the details of the crime.91400:48:20,880 --> 00:48:22,880There are so many factors.91500:48:22,880 --> 00:48:29,880The details of her background are what kept her from being even taken down as a missing person.91600:48:29,880 --> 00:48:40,880And then the details of the crime itself are what prevented them from being able to identify her because they found a torso.91700:48:40,880 --> 00:48:41,880Yeah.91800:48:41,880 --> 00:48:44,880Which is so horrific to think about.91900:48:44,880 --> 00:48:46,880Would you like to think about something else?92000:48:46,880 --> 00:48:47,880Yes, please.92100:48:47,880 --> 00:48:49,880Perhaps, to row?92200:48:49,880 --> 00:48:52,880I would love to think about some tarot.92300:48:52,880 --> 00:48:55,880Let's do it.92400:48:55,880 --> 00:48:57,880Okay.92500:48:57,880 --> 00:49:02,880As indie podcasters, we love to show our support of other awesome shows.92600:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,880So stay tuned for the promo we've got to share with you this week.92700:49:06,880 --> 00:49:08,880Let's show them some love.92800:49:08,880 --> 00:49:12,880You can find their info in our show notes.92900:49:12,880 --> 00:49:13,880Hi everyone.93000:49:13,880 --> 00:49:14,880My name is Stine Fox.93100:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,880I am the host of the Granger Baggins Podcast.93200:49:17,880 --> 00:49:21,880Here to tell you all about our amazing indie podcast.93300:49:21,880 --> 00:49:35,880On the Granger Baggins Podcast, we cover such topics as the old gods, witchcrafts, giants, tantra, and even more far-out topics such as homunculus and astro-theology.93400:49:35,880 --> 00:49:45,880You can find us on old bigger podcasting platforms under Grayhorn Baggins Podcast, and on indie platforms such as Goodbods and Kiyoshi on the same name.93500:49:45,880 --> 00:49:51,880Or simply go to www.grayhornpagas.com for the direct link.93600:49:51,880 --> 00:49:56,880Thank you all so much, and we'll see you there.93700:49:56,880 --> 00:49:58,880You guys, we're back!93800:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,880And don't worry, we did get more wine.93900:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,880Well, of course.94000:50:04,880 --> 00:50:09,880Okay.94100:50:09,880 --> 00:50:11,880What's this fucker's name again?94200:50:11,880 --> 00:50:14,880Wayne Adam Ford.94300:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,880Twatt Hwaffle.94400:50:17,880 --> 00:50:21,880Yeah, because his initials are W-A-F.94500:50:21,880 --> 00:50:22,880[laughs]94600:50:22,880 --> 00:50:24,880Get it.94700:50:24,880 --> 00:50:26,880Guys, you get it.94800:50:26,880 --> 00:50:27,880Do you get it?94900:50:27,880 --> 00:50:28,880Hwaffle?95000:50:28,880 --> 00:50:29,880Twatt Hwaffle.95100:50:29,880 --> 00:50:30,880Hwaffle.95200:50:30,880 --> 00:50:35,880We have our little alters set up over here, but there's no space.95300:50:35,880 --> 00:50:39,880I left no space for us to put the cards out.95400:50:39,880 --> 00:50:40,880So I'm going to...95500:50:40,880 --> 00:50:41,880She's cheating.95600:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,880I'm going to...no, I'm not cheating.95700:50:44,880 --> 00:50:45,880That's so rude.95800:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,880I'm spreading them out so I can do a pull.95900:50:48,880 --> 00:50:51,880Okay.96000:50:51,880 --> 00:50:53,880Page of Pinticle.96100:50:53,880 --> 00:50:55,880Pinticle.96200:50:55,880 --> 00:51:01,880I'm separating the two halves of the deck so that if we want to pull another one,96300:51:01,880 --> 00:51:05,880we know where we left off.96400:51:05,880 --> 00:51:06,880Okay.96500:51:06,880 --> 00:51:08,880Kind of fall colors.96600:51:08,880 --> 00:51:10,880Kind of goes with our vibe.96700:51:10,880 --> 00:51:12,880Looks like she has orange shoes.96800:51:12,880 --> 00:51:14,880Maybe they're red, I can't tell.96900:51:14,880 --> 00:51:16,880Yeah, they're like orangey red.97000:51:16,880 --> 00:51:20,880Yeah, and it looks like there's leaves on the ground, but those might be flowers, I don't know.97100:51:20,880 --> 00:51:21,880Anyway.97200:51:21,880 --> 00:51:22,880Hard to say.97300:51:22,880 --> 00:51:23,880Okay.97400:51:23,880 --> 00:51:24,880Page of Pinticles.97500:51:24,880 --> 00:51:36,880Our keywords are study, developing resources, naivety, curiosity, potential, and service.97600:51:36,880 --> 00:51:44,880Pages often represent the early stages of a matter or a time of study and gaining skills.97700:51:44,880 --> 00:51:52,880Some tarot packs picture the page of Pinticles as a young person gazing at a Pinticle as if trying to understand it.97800:51:52,880 --> 00:51:55,880Oh, interesting.97900:51:55,880 --> 00:52:05,880If this card represents an actual person, it's probably someone young, intelligent, hardworking, and ambitious.98000:52:05,880 --> 00:52:10,880I feel like that kind of just relates to all the women.98100:52:10,880 --> 00:52:11,880Yeah, maybe.98200:52:11,880 --> 00:52:13,880They were young, they were.98300:52:13,880 --> 00:52:25,880Yeah, and the page oftentimes is, we've talked about it before in other readings where it's kind of a gender-bending card, especially with the modern witch deck.98400:52:25,880 --> 00:52:30,880Because it's spoopy seasons, I wanted to do the modern witch deck.98500:52:30,880 --> 00:52:36,880And then, you know, witchiness happening behind us.98600:52:36,880 --> 00:52:37,880So, our eight.98700:52:37,880 --> 00:52:45,880The page of Pinticles can point to the everyday details of your life and advise you to take care of them.98800:52:45,880 --> 00:52:49,880This may refer to your work, possessions, or health.98900:52:49,880 --> 00:52:58,880In some cases, this card may indicate naivety on a financial or in a practical area.99000:52:58,880 --> 00:53:01,880You're learning how to live in the real world.99100:53:01,880 --> 00:53:07,880The page can also show you performing a service for someone.99200:53:07,880 --> 00:53:15,880In a reading about money, this card may refer to contracts or other paperwork related to money, possessions, or property.99300:53:15,880 --> 00:53:25,880The page upright may describe the early stages of a project when you're discussing possibilities, seeking financial support, or laying the groundwork.99400:53:25,880 --> 00:53:31,880And then, you're advised to learn all you can about a money matter.99500:53:31,880 --> 00:53:39,880If the reading is about your job, you may be preparing yourself for a career or a career change.99600:53:39,880 --> 00:53:45,880Oh, we did have, it was Lynette, who had just changed jobs.99700:53:45,880 --> 00:53:49,880She was starting in a new role in sales.99800:53:49,880 --> 00:53:52,880Oh, that's interesting.99900:53:52,880 --> 00:53:59,880She was in a position in business, health care, or the trades could be profitable.100000:53:59,880 --> 00:54:01,880Interesting.100100:54:01,880 --> 00:54:04,880He worked for that cement plant.100200:54:04,880 --> 00:54:06,880He did a great job.100300:54:06,880 --> 00:54:08,880He did have a bunch of different jobs.100400:54:08,880 --> 00:54:09,880He did.100500:54:09,880 --> 00:54:12,880He's kind of always changing jobs.100600:54:12,880 --> 00:54:19,880The page advises you to work hard and learn all you can in order to reach your goal.100700:54:19,880 --> 00:54:31,880In a reading about love, you may be more concerned with security, stability, and the practical aspects of a relationship than with romance.100800:54:31,880 --> 00:54:36,880This card can also indicate meeting a partner through work.100900:54:36,880 --> 00:54:39,880He was always driving.101000:54:39,880 --> 00:54:41,880Oh, oh, I don't like that.101100:54:41,880 --> 00:54:48,880I was thinking about kind of the girlfriends and how you said one of them at least stayed like way too long and...101200:54:48,880 --> 00:54:49,880Yeah.101300:54:49,880 --> 00:54:53,880I'm sure that was for stability reasons.101400:54:53,880 --> 00:54:54,880That's true.101500:54:54,880 --> 00:54:58,880I mean, I guess fear too could make you stay, but definitely fear.101600:54:58,880 --> 00:55:04,880A lot of it, I'm sure, was financial stability type of reasons?101700:55:04,880 --> 00:55:06,880Yeah, I would think so.101800:55:06,880 --> 00:55:17,880It's interesting that it picked up on this card that it just doesn't feel like has a lot of other parallels at least that what I'm thinking about.101900:55:17,880 --> 00:55:26,880I think after you finished, I immediately tried to forget everything you said.102000:55:26,880 --> 00:55:27,880Really?102100:55:27,880 --> 00:55:28,880From the story.102200:55:28,880 --> 00:55:33,880I was like, I'm having trouble recalling details from the story.102300:55:33,880 --> 00:55:34,880Yeah.102400:55:34,880 --> 00:55:39,880I think the thing that jumps out at me is there's so many phases of his life where it was like...102500:55:39,880 --> 00:55:48,880It says he's doing these odd jobs to make ends meet or he would get a job that he would get fired or he would screw up or whatever.102600:55:48,880 --> 00:55:49,880It's interesting.102700:55:49,880 --> 00:55:53,880Maybe it just picked up on that.102800:55:53,880 --> 00:55:59,880And I'm wondering if maybe holding the two ends of the deck out was a good move.102900:55:59,880 --> 00:56:02,880Maybe there's another card next to it that...103000:56:02,880 --> 00:56:03,880I don't know.103100:56:03,880 --> 00:56:04,880Yeah.103200:56:04,880 --> 00:56:06,880Why don't you look if that's what you're feeling.103300:56:06,880 --> 00:56:11,880I'm going to, but I'm going to read you this extra excerpt first.103400:56:11,880 --> 00:56:20,880It says what one does is what counts and not what one had the intention of doing.103500:56:20,880 --> 00:56:21,880Okay.103600:56:21,880 --> 00:56:23,880Well, like that really is.103700:56:23,880 --> 00:56:24,880Yeah.103800:56:24,880 --> 00:56:30,880With like the whole conscience thing, like you still did it.103900:56:30,880 --> 00:56:34,880Yeah, you can feel bad about it, but you still did it.104000:56:34,880 --> 00:56:37,880Yeah, I think that's really true.104100:56:37,880 --> 00:56:40,880That for me rings very true in this case.104200:56:40,880 --> 00:56:42,880Can you read that again?104300:56:42,880 --> 00:56:49,880What one does is what counts and not what one had the intention of doing.104400:56:49,880 --> 00:56:50,880Yeah.104500:56:50,880 --> 00:56:53,880I mean, good intentions are just that.104600:56:53,880 --> 00:56:58,880It doesn't mean a whole lot more than that.104700:56:58,880 --> 00:57:01,880Who knows if he ever did have any good intentions though?104800:57:01,880 --> 00:57:04,880I mean, he never had a conscience.104900:57:04,880 --> 00:57:10,880I mean, I think to me, I sort of, I sort of started to spiral because I was having that same105000:57:10,880 --> 00:57:17,880thought as I'm researching and writing this, but I sort of went back to you hear this all the105100:57:17,880 --> 00:57:22,880time where people start reading about like a sociopath, right?105200:57:22,880 --> 00:57:29,880Or you hear about this, a similar argument when somebody is a narcissist.105300:57:29,880 --> 00:57:35,880If you're concerned about it, you aren't one because they don't, you know what I mean?105400:57:35,880 --> 00:57:36,880Yeah.105500:57:36,880 --> 00:57:41,880So like to me, it almost was like, I don't know, I go back and forth.105600:57:41,880 --> 00:57:45,880Is that something, can you like develop a conscience over time?105700:57:45,880 --> 00:57:51,880I, you know, just from like seeing how other humans are.105800:57:51,880 --> 00:57:58,880I mean, at that point, are you actually developing a conscience or are you, are these just learned behaviors?105900:57:58,880 --> 00:57:59,880Yeah.106000:57:59,880 --> 00:58:05,880Is the idea that there's a reward system for, you know, not killing people?106100:58:05,880 --> 00:58:12,880Is that just more appealing than having people like dislike you or do you really mean?106200:58:12,880 --> 00:58:14,880Yeah, it's interesting.106300:58:14,880 --> 00:58:15,880Interesting thoughts.106400:58:15,880 --> 00:58:17,880I don't like that.106500:58:17,880 --> 00:58:22,880I'm going to look at a card that was underneath here at the bottom of the deck.106600:58:22,880 --> 00:58:25,880Oh boy.106700:58:25,880 --> 00:58:30,880It's the five of swords in reverse.106800:58:30,880 --> 00:58:31,880Oh, okay.106900:58:31,880 --> 00:58:38,880So does that not just like look, it looks like a man kind of turning back and looking sort of?107000:58:38,880 --> 00:58:43,880I don't know if it's angrily or in a four-learn way.107100:58:43,880 --> 00:58:45,880It's hard to tell.107200:58:45,880 --> 00:58:54,880I mean, and in this instance, especially knowing what we do about this deck, I think that's actually supposed to be more of an endrogenous character.107300:58:54,880 --> 00:58:58,880Yeah, it's just like a masculine energy, you know?107400:58:58,880 --> 00:59:02,880But just, I mean, that's the picture that I get.107500:59:02,880 --> 00:59:03,880Yeah.107600:59:03,880 --> 00:59:14,880There's two other characters like in the foreground and there's two swords on the ground and then three that they're holding.107700:59:14,880 --> 00:59:18,880So everything that I was saying about the picture holds true when you look at the traditional deck.107800:59:18,880 --> 00:59:20,880So I'll show you this after.107900:59:20,880 --> 00:59:29,880Keywords are change, adjustment, loss, destruction, conflict, indecision and sadness.108000:59:29,880 --> 00:59:32,880Right on for this one.108100:59:32,880 --> 00:59:40,880The number five signifies change and this card shows the time of adjustment after a conflict of some kind.108200:59:40,880 --> 00:59:45,880Sometimes the fight stems from ideological or spiritual differences.108300:59:45,880 --> 00:59:48,880I could say that yes.108400:59:48,880 --> 00:59:56,880I do have some ideological and spiritual differences with the surely all of us do.108500:59:56,880 --> 01:00:04,880The writer, Wade Smith, Aquarian and some other decks show a soldier on the battlefield at the end of a fight.108601:00:04,880 --> 01:00:08,880The card asks, what have you won or lost?108701:00:08,880 --> 01:00:09,880Was it he a soldier?108801:00:09,880 --> 01:00:10,880He was.108901:00:10,880 --> 01:00:12,880I always say soldier.109001:00:12,880 --> 01:00:18,880I mean, he was actually in the Navy, I believe.109101:00:18,880 --> 01:00:19,880Yeah.109201:00:19,880 --> 01:00:21,880I was like trying to remember what you had said.109301:00:21,880 --> 01:00:26,880Reverse the five suggests pretty much the same thing as it does upright.109401:00:26,880 --> 01:00:27,880Thank you.109501:00:27,880 --> 01:00:28,880One of those.109601:00:28,880 --> 01:00:41,880When the card appears reversed in a reading, however, you may feel a great sense of remorse, regret and unhappiness.109701:00:41,880 --> 01:00:42,880Yeah.109801:00:42,880 --> 01:00:43,880Okay.109901:00:43,880 --> 01:00:44,880Holy shit.110001:00:44,880 --> 01:00:50,880I just got like the chills all over my body.110101:00:50,880 --> 01:00:52,880Definitely.110201:00:52,880 --> 01:00:53,880Remorse.110301:00:53,880 --> 01:01:02,880But is it genuine remorse or is he like, are you just magic at caught?110401:01:02,880 --> 01:01:04,880But he didn't get caught.110501:01:04,880 --> 01:01:07,880To me, this seems like right.110601:01:07,880 --> 01:01:08,880Yeah.110701:01:08,880 --> 01:01:11,880I do have had some kind of remorse because he didn't get caught.110801:01:11,880 --> 01:01:12,880He didn't offer any of that.110901:01:12,880 --> 01:01:13,880Yeah, that's true.111001:01:13,880 --> 01:01:14,880That's true.111101:01:14,880 --> 01:01:23,880Sometimes it shows you making repairs or reparations after a conflict, trying to set things right111201:01:23,880 --> 01:01:26,880and learning from your suffering.111301:01:26,880 --> 01:01:32,880Did he ever try to do anything like for the family, is there anything like that?111401:01:32,880 --> 01:01:35,880I didn't see any indication of that necessarily.111501:01:35,880 --> 01:01:46,880But he did certainly make illusions too that like the reason why he turned himself in was that he didn't want to leave his son in orphan.111601:01:46,880 --> 01:01:47,880Right.111701:01:47,880 --> 01:01:54,880And so he's trying to take something that he's done horrifically wrong and not make it worse at least.111801:01:54,880 --> 01:01:55,880Yeah.111901:01:55,880 --> 01:01:57,880Reflecting on that, I don't.112001:01:57,880 --> 01:01:58,880Yeah, it's.112101:01:58,880 --> 01:02:00,880Oh, boy.112201:02:00,880 --> 01:02:09,880The reversed five can indicate losses after a fight, perhaps a legal matter or squabbling over an inheritance.112301:02:09,880 --> 01:02:12,880I don't think it's the latter.112401:02:12,880 --> 01:02:13,880Yeah, probably not.112501:02:13,880 --> 01:02:19,880In the end, no one really wins and you may experience regret.112601:02:19,880 --> 01:02:24,880It is interesting though that they said squabbling and that's kind of like a sibling thing.112701:02:24,880 --> 01:02:26,880And he like went with his brother.112801:02:26,880 --> 01:02:27,880Yeah.112901:02:27,880 --> 01:02:29,880That's such a good insight.113001:02:29,880 --> 01:02:30,880That's.113101:02:30,880 --> 01:02:31,880Thank you.113201:02:31,880 --> 01:02:39,880Squabbling, I really think of as being a word like when two siblings are in the back seat, like don't make me pull this car over.113301:02:39,880 --> 01:02:41,880Quit just squabbling back there.113401:02:41,880 --> 01:02:42,880Seriously.113501:02:42,880 --> 01:02:43,880Oh, shit.113601:02:43,880 --> 01:02:45,880This is just unreal.113701:02:45,880 --> 01:02:54,880If the reading is about your job, struggles with bosses or co-workers may cause hard feelings or impede your progress.113801:02:54,880 --> 01:02:55,880Yeah.113901:02:55,880 --> 01:02:56,880I'll say.114001:02:56,880 --> 01:03:00,880A conflict may damage your chances for advancement.114101:03:00,880 --> 01:03:08,880Like if you are institutionalized, conflicts with your employer, like when you, the dogs situation.114201:03:08,880 --> 01:03:10,880Yeah, that too.114301:03:10,880 --> 01:03:11,880Yeah.114401:03:11,880 --> 01:03:15,880That too he had so many conflicts in his own workplace.114501:03:15,880 --> 01:03:19,880Any had conflicts with his ex-wife's workplace.114601:03:19,880 --> 01:03:24,880Remember, he thought she was cheating with one of her co-workers and then they ended up getting together.114701:03:24,880 --> 01:03:25,880Yeah.114801:03:25,880 --> 01:03:36,880It says, perhaps causing you to change jobs under unfavorable circumstances, which understatement in this situation.114901:03:36,880 --> 01:03:37,880Okay.115001:03:37,880 --> 01:03:48,880In a reading about love, this card can indicate mourning the loss of a relationship or regretting a decision made in the heat of an argument.115101:03:48,880 --> 01:03:51,880Like maybe you got, you had a few too many.115201:03:51,880 --> 01:04:03,880You really tied one on and then you thought, I am literally going to put on all my camo gear and lay out on the lawn and wait.115301:04:03,880 --> 01:04:06,880That is just the craziest thing.115401:04:06,880 --> 01:04:07,880Yeah.115501:04:07,880 --> 01:04:10,880Regretting a decision made in the heat of an argument.115601:04:10,880 --> 01:04:11,880Wow.115701:04:11,880 --> 01:04:15,880Well, you said they were arguing too when he did the bad thing.115801:04:15,880 --> 01:04:16,880Mm-hmm.115901:04:16,880 --> 01:04:17,880Yeah.116001:04:17,880 --> 01:04:24,880Perhaps you feel betrayed, which is certainly something that he expressed.116101:04:24,880 --> 01:04:35,880In some cases, however, it can suggest trying to repair the damage and make constructive changes, perhaps with the help of therapy.116201:04:35,880 --> 01:04:36,880Yeah.116301:04:36,880 --> 01:04:38,880Mental health is important.116401:04:38,880 --> 01:04:39,880Wow.116501:04:39,880 --> 01:04:40,880Wow.116601:04:40,880 --> 01:04:42,880Can't believe it.116701:04:42,880 --> 01:04:47,880It's something about therapy and we're just like talking about mental health.116801:04:47,880 --> 01:04:48,880Oh, my God.116901:04:48,880 --> 01:04:49,880Okay.117001:04:49,880 --> 01:04:56,880So here is, for me, the significance of kind of the imagery, but also numerically.117101:04:56,880 --> 01:04:58,880So there are two women.117201:04:58,880 --> 01:05:02,880They have their backs to this person who's holding the swords.117301:05:02,880 --> 01:05:06,880And remember, there were two victims that were initially unidentified.117401:05:06,880 --> 01:05:07,880Yeah.117501:05:07,880 --> 01:05:12,880They're both now identified.117601:05:12,880 --> 01:05:19,880We have three swords that this person was holding onto and up until very, very recently.117701:05:19,880 --> 01:05:22,880His first victim was not identified.117801:05:22,880 --> 01:05:23,880Oh, yeah.117901:05:23,880 --> 01:05:24,880Three of them.118001:05:24,880 --> 01:05:27,880It was almost like it was still.118101:05:27,880 --> 01:05:28,880Yeah.118201:05:28,880 --> 01:05:30,880Do you think there's a fifth?118301:05:30,880 --> 01:05:31,880I don't.118401:05:31,880 --> 01:05:33,880I don't think so.118501:05:33,880 --> 01:05:34,880I mean, you wouldn't.118601:05:34,880 --> 01:05:35,880None of us would know.118701:05:35,880 --> 01:05:40,880But yeah, I mean, it's so hard to say the other thing is I think there's, you know,118801:05:40,880 --> 01:05:44,880there's two that it's like they're still.118901:05:44,880 --> 01:05:47,880It's like people, they're figures that are standing, right?119001:05:47,880 --> 01:05:50,880And then there's two that are on the ground.119101:05:50,880 --> 01:05:54,880And it's like those two are the two that were unidentified.119201:05:54,880 --> 01:05:55,880I don't know.119301:05:55,880 --> 01:05:59,880It's just he has four victims, right?119401:05:59,880 --> 01:06:01,880And it's the five of swords.119501:06:01,880 --> 01:06:02,880Yeah.119601:06:02,880 --> 01:06:03,880I don't know.119701:06:03,880 --> 01:06:09,880I'm just seeing a lot of significance there with kind of where the swords are positioned.119801:06:09,880 --> 01:06:10,880And yeah.119901:06:10,880 --> 01:06:15,880Well, I mean, he had more than just the victims that he murdered.120001:06:15,880 --> 01:06:17,880He had rape victims.120101:06:17,880 --> 01:06:18,880Right.120201:06:18,880 --> 01:06:22,880Who God knows what the fuck else he did.120301:06:22,880 --> 01:06:23,880Yeah.120401:06:23,880 --> 01:06:24,880Yeah.120501:06:24,880 --> 01:06:25,880Who?120601:06:25,880 --> 01:06:28,880Anybody else feel like they need a shower?120701:06:28,880 --> 01:06:31,880Or is that just me?120801:06:31,880 --> 01:06:38,880Who loved listening to that tarot reading and want to see it because obviously, duh,120901:06:38,880 --> 01:06:39,880we're cute.121001:06:39,880 --> 01:06:40,880Yeah.121101:06:40,880 --> 01:06:46,880Become a member of our Patreon where a video of every tarot read is uploaded with the ad-free121201:06:46,880 --> 01:06:53,880version of the episode each week, which is going to start feeling more significant.121301:06:53,880 --> 01:06:54,880Hmm.121401:06:54,880 --> 01:06:55,880Very soon.121501:06:55,880 --> 01:07:01,880Those videos typically have a lot of extras in them as well that we cut out of the regular121601:07:01,880 --> 01:07:02,880episodes.121701:07:02,880 --> 01:07:05,880So you get to feel like you're behind the scenes a little bit.121801:07:05,880 --> 01:07:08,880Lowell that.121901:07:08,880 --> 01:07:14,880Patreon for those of you that maybe are wondering what the hell is that exactly.122001:07:14,880 --> 01:07:16,880Please explain.122101:07:16,880 --> 01:07:21,880It's a monthly subscription with a range of price points and benefits.122201:07:21,880 --> 01:07:27,880Every member gets a personalized welcome card, a shout out in an upcoming episode and122301:07:27,880 --> 01:07:34,880exclusive bonus episodes and a lot of other things, some of which we don't even know about122401:07:34,880 --> 01:07:35,880yet.122501:07:35,880 --> 01:07:39,880A lot of other things like a mini tarot reading in your welcome card.122601:07:39,880 --> 01:07:44,880And if you want a special shout out, if you want us to say something different other than122701:07:44,880 --> 01:07:49,880your name or something, you'll have to message us directly on Patreon and let us know.122801:07:49,880 --> 01:07:50,880Do it.122901:07:50,880 --> 01:07:57,880If you can't support us monetarily, no worries because the easiest ways to support are absolutely123001:07:57,880 --> 01:07:58,880free.123101:07:58,880 --> 01:08:02,880Tell everyone and anyone you come into contact with about us.123201:08:02,880 --> 01:08:07,880Tell your dog walker about us because they need a podcast to listen to while they're walking123301:08:07,880 --> 01:08:10,880your dog or your barista.123401:08:10,880 --> 01:08:11,880Yeah.123501:08:11,880 --> 01:08:12,880Or bartender.123601:08:12,880 --> 01:08:18,880Or you can leave us a five star review on any platform where you're listening to us.123701:08:18,880 --> 01:08:24,880And if you're not listening to us on Apple, that's fine, but I mean, go there and leave us123801:08:24,880 --> 01:08:27,880one there too because that's the big one.123901:08:27,880 --> 01:08:28,880That's a big boy.124001:08:28,880 --> 01:08:31,880Just sprinkle those stars all around town.124101:08:31,880 --> 01:08:32,880You know what I mean?124201:08:32,880 --> 01:08:33,880Yes.124301:08:33,880 --> 01:08:39,880If you have any true crime paranormal or witchy stories to submit for a listener appreciation124401:08:39,880 --> 01:08:47,880episodes called the creepy people chronicles, please email us at pnwhauntsandhomicides@gmail.com124501:08:47,880 --> 01:08:54,880or you can also use we have a handy dandy little Google contact form you can124601:08:54,880 --> 01:09:00,680fill out and tell us your story and the link to that would be in the episode description.124701:09:00,680 --> 01:09:06,240You're always welcome to remain anonymous if you write in with a story and remember your124801:09:06,240 --> 01:09:13,440stories do not have to be coming from the Pacific Northwest specifically if you want to share.124901:09:13,440 --> 01:09:20,520If there is a story from somewhere in Europe or Asia or Africa, follow us on all of the125001:09:20,520 --> 01:09:21,520socials.125101:09:21,520 --> 01:09:26,400If you don't want to miss out on photos of our tarot cards, our beautiful altar setups,125201:09:26,400 --> 01:09:28,880which today there is a lot of fire.125301:09:28,880 --> 01:09:31,280There is a lot of pyrotechnics.125401:09:31,280 --> 01:09:32,280Yes.125501:09:32,280 --> 01:09:33,560Caitlin went a little crazy.125601:09:33,560 --> 01:09:39,080You can find our website or our link tree in the description of this episode to check out125701:09:39,080 --> 01:09:49,960all of the fun that we have to offer.125801:09:49,960 --> 01:09:52,440There are so many links on the link tree.125901:09:52,440 --> 01:09:54,520There are links to the links.126001:09:54,520 --> 01:09:57,560Have a creepy ass day.126101:09:57,560 --> 01:10:01,720See you next Tuesday.126201:10:01,720 --> 01:10:06,520Whenever we recover from this, I don't know.126301:10:06,520 --> 01:10:07,520We gotta go.126401:10:07,520 --> 01:10:09,520See this fucker again.126501:10:09,520 --> 01:10:11,680Hopefully you don't confess to any more crimes.126601:10:11,680 --> 01:10:12,680No, thank you.126701:10:12,680 --> 01:10:14,520Unless it's gonna help somebody, I guess.126801:10:14,520 --> 01:10:19,320I was like actually confess more.126901:10:19,320 --> 01:10:24,520Yeah, confess more, but also don't do the thing in the first place to have to confess to127001:10:24,520 --> 01:10:25,520it.127101:10:25,520 --> 01:10:26,520Yeah.127201:10:26,520 --> 01:10:27,520You know, does that make sense?127301:10:27,520 --> 01:10:28,520Yes, I agree.127401:10:28,520 --> 01:10:29,520I concur.127501:10:29,520 --> 01:10:31,520Okay, but really though.127601:10:31,520 --> 01:10:32,520Bye.127701:10:32,520 --> 01:10:33,520Bye.127801:10:33,520 --> 01:10:43,520Bye.127901:10:43,520 --> 01:11:09,560Do you want me to splash some cold wine on you?128001:11:09,560 --> 01:11:10,560Yeah.128101:11:10,560 --> 01:11:11,560Of course.128201:11:11,560 --> 01:11:17,120I'd like to just check it and throw my part.128301:11:17,120 --> 01:11:18,120Better than butt-chugging.128401:11:18,120 --> 01:11:22,160I was just thinking that face-chugging better than butt-chugging.128501:11:22,160 --> 01:11:28,600Outtake, outtake, anyone?