Lynching in Marshfield - Revisiting Injustice for Alonzo Tucker

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,000 Marsha Hart, the executive director of the Coos Bay History Museum, said of the project, 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:16,000 "To me, the importance of this day is to recognize a past historical event in the context of the times, 3 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:21,000 one that is shocking to imagine that it occurred in our community, 4 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:27,000 and one that is part of a greater story about the unjust treatment of the Indian tribes 5 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:31,000 and minority pioneers in our state." 6 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:44,000 Hi Cassie! Hi Caitlyn! Hello creepy people! 7 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:45,000 Hello! 8 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,000 Hello! 9 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:54,000 That's so funny I heard somebody talking about the "Hello!" from Mrs. Doubtfire the other day, 10 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:59,000 and they couldn't do it. Oh, it was like from us? No! 11 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:01,000 You didn't even say that up! 12 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:06,000 Anyway, I guess we'll introduce ourselves. 13 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:11,000 If you're new to our creepy corner of the world, this is PNW Haunts and Homicides, 14 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:18,000 where we chat about true crime, paranormal, and all things creepy in the Pacific Northwest. 15 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:25,000 And we do a tarot reading at the end for deeper insight into this episode, so make sure you stick around if you're into that. 16 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:29,000 Yeah, and hopefully you are, you should be. 17 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,000 We're going coastal today. 18 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,000 Ooh, yeah! 19 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:40,000 I feel like you like to go coastal. You've gone coastal a couple of times. 20 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:45,000 Yeah, I feel like coastal, maybe that's like kind of a thing for me. 21 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:50,000 Sort of the beachy waves vibe. 22 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:54,000 The salt and the sand in your hair and toes. 23 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,000 I get it. I'm a crab. I live on the beach. 24 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:00,000 True. True. 25 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:07,000 And yet we've seen far less little segues off to the beach from you, I feel like. 26 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:12,000 Yeah, I feel like have I done one? Is this a sign? 27 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:16,000 Bandage man, sort of. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 28 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,000 How did you remember that? 29 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,000 I don't know. I really don't. 30 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,000 I couldn't tell you. I'm impressed. 31 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:29,000 How does anyone remember anything? That's really the question, I think. 32 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,000 I couldn't tell you. 33 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,000 Well, any who, I'm going to get started. 34 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:48,000 Who's Bay off the coast of Oregon State is the largest coastal city in the Southwestern coastal region with a population of approximately because this might be a slightly old statistic. 35 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:52,000 16,615. 36 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,000 Okay, that's the largest. 37 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,000 Yes, in that region. 38 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:58,000 That's a that big. 39 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:05,000 No, it also boasts the third largest art museum in Oregon. 40 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:10,000 Oh, that's cool. Yeah, I love going to the art museums at the beach. 41 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,000 I feel like you have to do that at the beach. 42 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,000 There's always an art museum around. 43 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:25,000 I think so. Yeah, pretty much every time I go to the beach regardless of what little city that I end up in, there's kind of like a minimum. 44 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:29,000 It's like a gallery, like a local gallery. You got to check that out. 45 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,000 That in an antique store. 46 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,000 Yes, yes. 47 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:39,000 Historically known as Marshfield, the city was founded in 1853. 48 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:47,000 It was named after the Massachusetts hometown of the city's founder, JC Talman. 49 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:54,000 In 1944, the local residents voted to change the name to Coos Bay. 50 00:03:54,000 --> 00:04:04,000 Though the name Marshfield versus Coos Bay and other would be contenders remained a point of contention for a short time. 51 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,000 Coos Bay would eventually stick. 52 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:09,000 Marshfield doesn't sound like the beach. 53 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:10,000 I'm sorry. 54 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:15,000 Yeah, I mean, I guess it sounds more like a Marsh or a field. 55 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,000 Yeah, little on the nose, I guess. 56 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,000 Yeah, but you know, also, whose is just fun to say. 57 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,000 It really is. It really is. 58 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:28,000 The name Coos is said to be derived from a number of sources. 59 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:41,000 In fact, even the city of Coos Bay, Oregon History website, says that the name is likely taken from one of the areas Native American tribes and has two Indian meanings, 60 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:44,000 Lake and place of pines. 61 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:56,000 However, a noted Malook or Malook is really hard to get an accurate pronunciation guide for that name specifically. 62 00:04:56,000 --> 00:05:10,000 However, a noted Malook language expert and tribal member has said that she believes its origin ties back to the Lewis and Clark expedition and the word for south in the coups language, 63 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:16,000 which has two dialects, one of which is Malook. 64 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:24,000 She also provides a simple pronunciation guide for many of the languages or dialects of the confederated tribes. 65 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:29,000 So I'm inclined to go with her opinion. 66 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:35,000 Pretty much anything she says, she's kind of the expert in the tribal languages and dialects. 67 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,000 Yeah, I believe it. 68 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:46,000 Though, notably, not for the word or name, Malook itself, but with a bit of digging, I think I may have stuck the landing. 69 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:50,000 So I think it is Malook. 70 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:51,000 I believe you. 71 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,000 I hope I am correct. 72 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,000 And also, if you're not, you really tried. 73 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:58,000 I really did. 74 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:06,000 And I think this next section, you're going to start to understand why it is so incredibly difficult. 75 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:16,000 And I feel awful for even complaining because the root of the issue is just very sad. 76 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:32,000 According to ethnologue, the coups language belongs to the Kuzn language family and is a dormant or still language of the United States, meaning that it shows no signs of digital support. 77 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:45,000 The language is no longer used as a first language by any remaining members of the ethnic community and it is not known to be taught in schools. 78 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,000 Oh, that's so sad. 79 00:06:48,000 --> 00:07:01,000 In addition to the previously mentioned pronunciation guide, I did, however, find an interview with Laura Hodgkis Metcalf dating back to 1953. 80 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:11,000 There is a recording of the interview containing the 284 different Malook words she spoke during that session. 81 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:19,000 She is remembered by co-kill tribal members as Lolly Metcalf. 82 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:20,000 Lolly? 83 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:21,000 That not the cutest. 84 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,000 That is really cute. 85 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,000 Her sister, Daisy Wasen Codding. 86 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,000 That's cute too. 87 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:35,000 Was not fluent but assisted with the creation of the historical record as well. 88 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:52,000 Decades prior in the 1930s, Annie Minor Peterson was considered perhaps the last and best speaker of the language, producing two volumes of texts of both Hannes and Malook dialects of the Kuzn language. 89 00:07:52,000 --> 00:08:04,000 The confederated tribes of Kuz, Lower Amquah, Sayusla Indians as well as the co-kill Indian tribe called the Kuzbe region, their ancestral home. 90 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:14,000 Despite the lengthy background provided regarding Kuzbe in indigenous history, that's not really what we're here to talk about today. 91 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,000 I mean, not just that. 92 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,000 Today we'll be talking about one man in particular. 93 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:24,000 He too has little written as record of his existence. 94 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,000 Ooh, ominous. 95 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,000 Yes. 96 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:39,000 Which seems odd for a person who lived in a particular place and at a point in history that now seems deeply and yet also darkly momentous. 97 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:46,000 His life and death could have easily remained a tragedy almost entirely lost to history. 98 00:08:46,000 --> 00:09:02,000 Though some of the details of his life may remain unclear, the tragic death of Alonzo Tucker is in alarming, vivid, full focus in hindsight for those familiar with the story. 99 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:09,000 Alonzo was born in Maryland and later moved to Sacramento, where he was a prized fighter. 100 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:15,000 Before eventually coming to Coos County, only two years prior to his brutal murder. 101 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,000 Holy shit, he was a prized fighter? 102 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,000 He was. 103 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,000 He fought for prizes. 104 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,000 He was a boxer, you know. 105 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,000 Well, that's crazy. 106 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:33,000 Reporting on one of his fights in the Sacramento area touted it as the best ever seen in that section of California. 107 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:37,000 So not just a prized fighter, but a pretty, pretty good one. 108 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,000 Damn, I wonder how many prizes he won. 109 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,000 I'm not sure. 110 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:54,000 Another article by the Sacramento Bee described his arrest following a physical altercation, one that took place outside of the formal setting of a boxing ring. 111 00:09:54,000 --> 00:10:01,000 He had only become involved to stop the fight and was in fact found not guilty. 112 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:11,000 This feels particularly remarkable when one considers that in this era, he would have faced an all-male jury of white men. 113 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:15,000 So emphasis on men and whiteness. 114 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:19,000 Wow, I never would have guessed that I thought you were going to say he was guilty for sure. 115 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,000 Yeah. 116 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:28,000 The justice system has been notoriously unkind, people of color throughout our nation's history. 117 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:34,000 The only thing I can think of is like were all those guys like betting on him or something? 118 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:46,000 Like, you know, it does kind of make you wonder, but I think that just the situation was just that it was clear he was just there trying to be, you know, a good smaritan. 119 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,000 He was an innocent bystander. 120 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:57,000 There must have been just like some super obvious evidence they couldn't figure out a way to make him guilty for. 121 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:01,000 Yeah, I mean that or maybe they were good people. 122 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:05,000 Yeah, I mean, there's on the outside chance. 123 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:06,000 Right. 124 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,000 Yeah, not likely. 125 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:12,000 Yeah, and I don't know that this was a fight with a white person. 126 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:24,000 So, you know, if you're not pitting, you know, two people of different racial backgrounds against each other, maybe they have less motive to unjustly convict him. 127 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:45,000 Yeah, that was my thought, but the equal justice initiative based in Montgomery, Alabama has documented the brutal killing of nearly 6,500 African Americans between the years 1865 to 1950. 128 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:46,000 Wow. 129 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,000 It's less than 100 years. 130 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:58,000 Alonzo Tucker is one of the more than 300 African-American victims killed in non-Southern states. 131 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:07,000 This crime has the unique and tragic distinction of being the only documented case to occur in the state of Oregon. 132 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,000 Oh. 133 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:27,000 Language is important here because some sources do indicate that there were likely more both elsewhere in the Pacific Northwest and in the state of Oregon specifically, though some may not have been documented or formally reported. 134 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,000 That makes sense. 135 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:34,000 Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to argue with that for a minute. 136 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:35,000 Yeah. 137 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,000 Is that possible one? 138 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:48,000 Yeah, I do think that probably the numbers are dramatically lower in Oregon, but maybe not for the reason that you think. 139 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:58,000 Recordkeeping was far less consistent, as well as far more onerous when it was all recorded and maintained purely by pen and paper. 140 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:06,000 And that's just one of many reasons why certain things may not have been documented throughout history. 141 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,000 That's a very easy scapegoat. 142 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:13,000 Yeah, I can't even write in a journal every day why would I want to document everything, you know? 143 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:17,000 Well, especially when it doesn't look great. 144 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:28,000 Oregon's historical relationship with the black community was at times, perhaps not quite so fraught as in many southern states at the turn of the 20th century. 145 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:37,000 But it's important to note that in many Oregon communities, black people were sometimes tolerated, though never welcomed. 146 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,000 I hate that statement. 147 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:48,000 That's definitely a statement. There's not really any question about that in reviewing the historical record. 148 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,000 The things that were recorded. 149 00:13:51,000 --> 00:14:01,000 Dr. Darryl Milner, who happens to be one of the foremost historians regarding African Americans in the new frontier of the western United States, 150 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:12,000 sites a number of lynchings of black people, as well as that of Native Americans in the Oregon territory during the Civil War era. 151 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:22,000 This assertion is additionally supported by Andy E. Jensen, the author of multiple books concerning the history of Kuz County. 152 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:35,000 His book, Law on the Bay, Marshfield, Oregon, 1874 to 1944, points to a total of four black men potentially lynched in the state. 153 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:39,000 Oh, wow. So there is like some kind of record. 154 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,000 Maybe not an official record. Yeah. 155 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:46,000 Yeah. There's definitely information available. 156 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:51,000 Certainly not widely propagated or circulated, but it exists. 157 00:14:51,000 --> 00:15:04,000 Dr. Milner also cites multiple instances of pseudo lynchings or practice lynchings at the Clans height in the 1920s. 158 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:09,000 What are they practicing on? 159 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:17,000 I have more information about that and you're not going to like it. 160 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:35,000 He states that those incidents for striking resemblance to an actual lynching, which is one of the more terrifying ideas occupying space rent free in my head literally ever and forever more. 161 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:54,000 In such a case, the intended target would be identified, captured and secreted away to an isolated location before the lynching would be simulated in dramatic fashion, though stopping short of killing the individual. 162 00:15:54,000 --> 00:16:03,000 Often they would be driven out of tone by the promise of a real lynching in the future should they remain. 163 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:08,000 That's part of the lynching record as well. Dr. Milner explains. 164 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:14,000 What is so we're going to pretend to hang you. 165 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:24,000 That is just crazy and grow. I mean, it's gross to do it anyway, but also to like make it a show. 166 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:42,000 It's like entertainment. Real or pseudo lynches almost without exception in much of the United States treated as a form of entertainment for many. 167 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,000 That's so gross. 168 00:16:45,000 --> 00:17:02,000 Oregon territory for these purposes consisting of Oregon, Washington and Idaho state as well as some parts of both Wyoming and Montana was engineered to be a racist white utopia. 169 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:24,000 Those familiar with both the historical events and legal proceedings of the day can point to a number of tangible ways that white supremacy was quite literally built into the policies laws and very societal or cultural fabric of the area. 170 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:33,000 Of course, to great detriment of multiple marginalized groups like the indigenous communities and African Americans. 171 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:50,000 Don't believe me. Take the Oregon donation land act of 1850, which gave away 2.5 million acres of indigenous land for free to white settlers. 172 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:58,000 1 320 acre parcel to each and every man willing to claim it at a time. 173 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:10,000 If that man was married, the couple could claim up to 640 acres, provided that the man was and this is a quote. 174 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:20,000 A white settler or occupant of the public lands, American half breed Indians included. 175 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:33,000 Above the age of 18 years, being a citizen of the United States or having made a declaration according to law of his intention to become a citizen. 176 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:38,000 They just given their shit away for free. They're not even trying to make money off of it. 177 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:46,000 Probably most of us have some cursory awareness of this, but it didn't stop there. 178 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:53,000 Next, black people were banned from living in the Oregon territory. 179 00:18:53,000 --> 00:19:01,000 In essence, this law criminalized being black while also happening to be in the state. 180 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:16,000 Finally, to enforce the former, there was the lash law, which said black people would be publicly whipped up to 39 times every 6 months until they left the territory. 181 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,000 Jesus. 182 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:19,000 Yep. 183 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:28,000 It was 6 months later that this would be amended to forced public labor as a punishment rather than the lashes. 184 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:33,000 Oh my God, really? Quite generous. At the time. 185 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,000 Yeah, thanks. 186 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,000 Thanks for punishing me for being me. 187 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:47,000 Oregon was the only state admitted to the union with a racially exclusionary clause in its constitution. 188 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:58,000 That black exclusion law language was not removed from Oregon's constitution until 2002. 189 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:02,000 Wait, what? No, that's fake. That's fake news. 190 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,000 It's Caitlin. 191 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:11,000 Despite continuous efforts by the black community to do so for almost a century. 192 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,000 2002? 193 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:23,000 There was also significant opposition in the 21st century from white Oregonians to take the language out. 194 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,000 Of course there was. 195 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:29,000 I'm not going to name any of the towns I'm thinking of right now. 196 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:30,000 Uh huh. 197 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:38,000 The 1900 census listed 36 African-American individuals as living in Kuz County. 198 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:44,000 And let's just say they did not refer to them as African-Americans. 199 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:49,000 Oh no. Did they use dirty words and laws or is this a law? 200 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,000 Well, this is the census. Wow. 201 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:58,000 By 1910, that number had dwindled to just 17. 202 00:20:58,000 --> 00:20:59,000 I wonder why? 203 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:03,000 Because my next sentence says, "Gee, I wonder why?" 204 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:10,000 Truthfully, it's surprising that even that many remained by that time. 205 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:18,000 They were, after all, living in a state that from its very inception had designs on excluding them from its communities. 206 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:29,000 And the events that we're going to talk about today make that abundantly clear if the language of our laws did not. 207 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:37,000 Alonzo Tucker was said to be a hardworking and resourceful young married man at 28 years old. 208 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:45,000 We already know that he had been a boxer, but he would go on to wear many hats when it came to making a living. 209 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:54,000 He worked as a boot black, a male carrier, and was once even a small business owner when he opened his own gym. 210 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,000 Wow. That's so cool. 211 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:12,000 According to statements provided to newspaper The World, local Harry Walker spoke about much of what he recalled from the time that Alonzo Tucker was living in the area. 212 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:20,000 In order to train for upcoming boxing matches, Alonzo was known to run several miles each day. 213 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:34,000 And as always, he was also never one to miss out on an opportunity for extra income. Alonzo would carry mail between Marshfield and neighboring Libby on his runs. 214 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:46,000 Harry and other witnesses believed that there was another well-known, but typically little discussed reason why Alonzo took this same route frequently. 215 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:52,000 Oh, Alonzo, no! Yes. 216 00:22:52,000 --> 00:23:04,000 Reportedly, Alonzo had been carrying on an affair with a white woman, reportedly named Lizzie Dennis, who was a local man or wife. 217 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:19,000 I'll just state that the name of this woman isn't totally clear in all of the source material, but that same name is used in multiple publications that I found. 218 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:32,000 And I think that's just because all we have to verify or back up most of the details of this case are decades old, eyewitness accounts. 219 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:37,000 But that was printed in the paper. 220 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:38,000 Okay. 221 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:42,000 There are newspaper articles about this case. 222 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,000 Wow. From way back when? 223 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:50,000 One day, the relationship either soured or was at risk of being discovered. 224 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,000 Many sources indicate the latter. 225 00:23:53,000 --> 00:24:06,000 In fact, a trio of witnesses dating back to that time stated in a 1974 interview that Tucker and Mrs. Dennis were spotted together by the town doctor. 226 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:17,000 In any case, rather than admit the truth of the situation, the woman, Alonzo's once former lover, became his accuser. 227 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:23,000 Of course, effectively sealing his horrific fate. 228 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:35,000 Her accusation that a black man had raped her near South Marshfield's seventh street bridge carried significant weight. 229 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:42,000 A newspaper at the time wrote, she is highly esteemed for her pure womanhood. 230 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,000 No. 231 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,000 Yeah. 232 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:53,000 The odds appeared to be very much against him in this case, unlike his previous judicial experience. 233 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:59,000 There was little reason to be optimistic about the outcome of a criminal trial. 234 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:08,000 But there is no official record of what happened since Alonzo Tucker never had a trial. 235 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:18,000 The co-kill city herald reported that Mrs. Ben Dennis of Libby, a woman it was said, was above reproach. 236 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,000 What does that mean? 237 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:37,000 When somebody says above reproach or beyond reproach, they're saying like your authority on the matter or the level of trustworthiness for you in this particular matter is without question. 238 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:38,000 Oh, okay. 239 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:39,000 Yeah. 240 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:47,000 Very little power in any aspect of day to day life for a woman, even a white woman. 241 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:56,000 But in this case, her word certainly would trump anything in this horrific debacle. 242 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,000 I'll say it once more in just a case. 243 00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,000 Okay. 244 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:14,000 The co-kill city herald reported that Mrs. Ben Dennis of Libby, a woman it said was above reproach, was dragged into some bushes and assaulted by Alonzo Tucker. 245 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:21,000 Laumann soon arrested Tucker who protested his innocence. 246 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:31,000 Once the news spread, it didn't take long for a mob of gun-wielding white miners to march into downtown Marshfield. 247 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,000 Their path was all too clear. 248 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,000 They were headed for the jail. 249 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:50,000 Some accounts say that the marshal tried to sneak Tucker out of the jail to safety, but that the terrified suspect, at least according to the quote on quote, official story, broke away and disappeared. 250 00:26:50,000 --> 00:27:06,000 Based on accounts from that same trio of witnesses in 1974, it seems more likely that the jailer could not and was not likely very inclined to ensure Tucker's safety. 251 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:10,000 And so yeah, I'd probably run as well. 252 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:23,000 Yeah, but it doesn't sound like that's what actually happened because his jailer realized pretty quickly that he would be overwhelmed. 253 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,000 But there's a little bit more. 254 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:35,000 They noted that the man frequently referred to Alonzo Tucker using a popular derogatory slur of the day. 255 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:40,000 Just in passing conversation, referred to him in that way. 256 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:51,000 So they were inclined to believe that he probably wasn't going to put much at risk to protect the person he was given as charge. 257 00:27:51,000 --> 00:28:01,000 Whatever one might be inclined to believe, the true course of events was that didn't stop the mob from barging into the city jail. 258 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:18,000 One detail was repeated throughout source material that one amongst the angry mob boldly proclaimed that they were going to administer southern justice to the alleged rapist. 259 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:24,000 On September 18th, 1902, they did. 260 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:32,000 The armed mob closed off the town and patrolled to ensure that escape would be all that impossible. 261 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:41,000 So Alonzo had hidden overnight, but he was found the following morning underneath a local storefront. 262 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:47,000 Though he ran after being discovered, he was grievously wounded after being shot in the thigh. 263 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,000 Cheese. 264 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:54,000 Reportedly having hit a major artery. 265 00:28:54,000 --> 00:29:05,000 According to one doctor at the time, the wound would have proved fatal in roughly 10 minutes, making his attempt to escape all that much more remarkable. 266 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:12,000 He begged local bystanders for help, but his cries fell on deaf ears. 267 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:29,000 And there are a couple of different statements about what specifically his cries were and it was variations of Lord half mercy. 268 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:42,000 Even when the dust settled, the jailer refused to identify anyone within the mob, though he had abandoned his charge mortally wounded to request the coroner's services. 269 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,000 So I don't know what does that tell you? 270 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,000 Wow. 271 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,000 So he just left him still alive and was like, oh, well, he's dead. 272 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,000 But I'm going to get someone to deal with that. 273 00:29:52,000 --> 00:30:03,000 Man, those thinking about the people on the street who he's asking for help, like what, honestly, what are they going to do against an angry mob as well? 274 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:13,000 Well, and he's already, you know, he's begging people inside the store that he had been hiding underneath and he'd run inside. 275 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:36,000 There was unfortunately very little that anybody could have done at this point if they had even been inclined to and none of the eyewitnesses who were children at the time indicated that anyone would have helped him. 276 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:51,000 And this next part is pretty horrific. They hung Alonzo Tucker already dead from multiple gunshot wounds from a bridge in Marshfield. 277 00:30:51,000 --> 00:31:01,000 Now, Kuzbe, he died before they could make it to the bridge, but they strung him up anyway. 278 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:07,000 As someone put a rope around Tucker's neck, hundreds were gathered. 279 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:15,000 They were determined to carry out the lynching at the very spot where the alleged crime had taken place. 280 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:25,000 And though he died before they made it, they hung him from the bridge anyway as a public spectacle. 281 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:36,000 His body hung for hours in broad daylight on the old Marshfield bridge. Some people said days. 282 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:54,000 The ensuing investigation, if you can call it that, found that he died and this is a quote, from a wound inflicted by parties unknown and that no crime had been committed. 283 00:31:54,000 --> 00:32:03,000 It wouldn't be until well over a hundred years later that the crime would be acknowledged in a more meaningful way. 284 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:18,000 Not only was an historical monument erected, but soil from the spots where Tucker was grabbed, shot and lynched, was poured into two glass jars. 285 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:34,000 As part of a project to commemorate America's lynchings, they are now displayed in both the Kuz history museum and the National Museum for Peace and Justice in Alabama. 286 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:42,000 It may have been that a crowd of two to three hundred gathered to watch as the gruesome crime took place. 287 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:52,000 But all these years later, there were easily double as many present to mourn, as well as commemorate a Lonzo Tucker's life. 288 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:59,000 Marsha Hart, the executive director of the Kuz history museum, said of the project. 289 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:07,000 To me, the importance of this day is to recognize a past historical event in the context of the times. 290 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:24,000 One that is shocking to imagine that it occurred in our community, and one that is part of a greater story about the unjust treatment of the Indian tribes and minority pioneers in our state. 291 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:38,000 I have a few statistics that are from actually a TED talk that I saw in person. 292 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:49,000 That's cool. And it was one of the individuals who helped to put the monument and the ceremony together. 293 00:33:49,000 --> 00:34:04,000 Oh, wow. Between 1910 and 1950, only 22% of the South's overall population were African-Americans. 294 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:12,000 But they accounted for over 75% of all executions in the region. 295 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:24,000 Two thirds of all executions in the United States were of African-Americans in the 1930s and in so-called modern times. 296 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:41,000 When African-Americans make up roughly 13% of the population, 41% of those residing on death row are African-Americans. 297 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:51,000 I have all of those written down from when I saw his TED talk, but I watched it again. 298 00:34:51,000 --> 00:35:00,000 There's a lot of really ugly aspects to our nation's history. 299 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:20,000 And I think particularly those of us in the Pacific Northwest, certainly would like to think that we are part of a more progressive community and generation. 300 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:40,000 But there are some things about this region, our state, specifically, historically that are really significant and that point to regardless of, you know, sort of the ideals that we have today. 301 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:53,000 There's pretty dark and horrific things about how this part of the country and our state in particular was founded. 302 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:58,000 I literally don't even know what to say. 303 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:06,000 I don't know. Nothing I say is like, not like it's not going to matter. I can't think of a word. 304 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:15,000 It doesn't feel like it's enough. Nothing really captures it. 305 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:27,000 I feel like I'm in a classroom, not that we really learned about what we kind of did go in death on this kind of thing in the classroom. 306 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:35,000 And I just feel like I'm back there learning for the first time what the fuck happened in this country. 307 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:47,000 I think in some ways, as I was researching, there are aspects of this that I think we were taught. 308 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:58,000 And then I think there are probably other areas of the country that receive, 309 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:07,000 and even more whitewashed version of these historical lessons. 310 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:21,000 But there's still quite a bit that unless you continue on and do graduate level studies or your own independent research, 311 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:31,000 these are not things necessarily that you will have learned about, not in a public school setting. 312 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:37,000 And it was like maybe one famous story in the South that we learned about. 313 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:48,000 I don't remember hearing a ton of numbers or stats or where this happened, other places, definitely not where I was living. 314 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,000 Right. Well, and that was sort of my point with this. 315 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:59,000 And it's not because I think we have to vilify our community as it exists today. 316 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:17,000 But I think for some of us that have grown up on the other side of the country, say from where the origins of a lot of the slave trade really where that hub 317 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:31,000 that we think of, you know, where that originates, our education, I think, focuses on a lot of othering. 318 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:45,000 And I think you nailed it because you do hear about, you know, maybe one, if you're lucky, a handful of cases that have occurred elsewhere in the country. 319 00:38:45,000 --> 00:39:00,000 But there is sort of this, even if it's never outright spoken, there is sort of a perception or, you know, this reflection that, right, but not here. 320 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,000 Yeah, exactly. 321 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:18,000 And I think as much as I don't, you know, I hope it's not representative of our state, our communities, of the ideals of anyone residing therein. 322 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:37,000 It's upsetting to learn that, you know, a lot of what we've built upon is very much not just as racist or just as harmful as murderous as, you know, whatever you want to say as, you know, some of the Southern states. 323 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:53,000 In a way, almost worse because we just, the exclusionary laws are just, and I've known about them in a more general sense for quite a few years. 324 00:39:53,000 --> 00:40:02,000 But my God, I mean, it's just so much worse than, than we were ever taught. 325 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:21,000 It feels a little bit like, even if you feel that you have done your best to be, you know, have an awareness and, you know, be open to learning and be open to the perspectives of, you know, people who have a different lived experience than you. 326 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:33,000 There's a little bit of a sense of betrayal because there's nothing that sets us apart or as being superior. 327 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,000 I mean, not at all. 328 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:45,000 No, I think the historical record shows that, you know, some pretty awful things happened here too. 329 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:52,000 And they got rid of the law and what you said, 2002. And we graduated in 2007. 330 00:40:52,000 --> 00:41:01,000 So like right around the time it got abolished or whatever was like when we would have been learning about it or like maybe a couple of years later. 331 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:02,000 Oh my God. 332 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,000 I mean, take this for perspective. 333 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:10,000 We had already experienced 9/11. 334 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:11,000 Yeah. 335 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:18,000 That's how recently, that's how recently that some of those things were changed. 336 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:19,000 Yeah. 337 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,000 Some of that language and codification. 338 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:27,000 That was the past. That was, that wasn't here in today's world. 339 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,000 This doesn't happen anymore. 340 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:30,000 Yeah. 341 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:54,000 And maybe you can make the argument that, okay, well, sure, you know, a lot of places have these extremely antiquated laws on the books that aren't really enforced anymore or, you know, obscure regulations that just don't really sync up with modern society. 342 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,000 And so what does it matter? 343 00:41:56,000 --> 00:42:01,000 Like it's illegal to walk into bubble gum or some shit. Like there's random stuff like that. 344 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:02,000 This is not that. 345 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:03,000 This is not that. 346 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,000 One of these things is not like the other. 347 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:06,000 Yeah. 348 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:11,000 It's not like, like one of them is light and kind of silly like, okay, like that's illegal. 349 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:12,000 Yeah. 350 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,000 But the other one is like get it out of here. 351 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:16,000 Yeah. 352 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,000 But we kept that on the books. 353 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:33,000 They had to fight for it to be removed, which insinuates that there is perhaps a segment of the population that thinks we might still want to be able to use this. 354 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:37,000 Yeah. 355 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:41,000 And I mean, I don't, I definitely don't doubt that even now. 356 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:42,000 Right. 357 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:50,000 So just casually in the last, you know, two decades, that's finally been changed. 358 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:59,000 And that's, I mean, very comfortably, very firmly in our lifetimes. 359 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:05,000 I feel like that needs to be learned as part of history to like the present history, you know, that kind of silly. 360 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:25,000 No, I mean, it really, it really is remarkable how many things it has so much more impact in years after, you know, just it doesn't just go away. 361 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:26,000 Right. 362 00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:32,000 I mean, that's the problem with systemic racism. 363 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,000 It doesn't just go away. 364 00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:40,000 We had one of the largest clan populations in the nation at one point. 365 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,000 I'm given to understand. 366 00:43:42,000 --> 00:44:01,000 I don't know if that's backed up by a lot of data or if that's largely anecdotal, but there are certainly members of the Portland police bureau and other government officials that have been photographed from 367 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:07,000 the last hundred years in their clans wear. 368 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,000 It's just so icky and gross. 369 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:20,000 I don't know how you can, I just don't know how you can look at another person like a human, like a living thing, like even a bug and want to squash it, you know. 370 00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:21,000 I don't understand. 371 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:22,000 Yeah. 372 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:30,000 I just, listen, if you're a spider, I feel like that's a whole different ball of worms as it were. 373 00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:33,000 But let's your man, then I'll take you outside. 374 00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:34,000 Yeah. 375 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:41,000 Listen, we had a spider the other day that was hanging in the walkway, no less. 376 00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:46,000 His web was like, oh my, and Chris goes, that's a really big one. 377 00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:59,000 He was like, should I just knock it down and maybe it'll go like into the bark dust and I was like, you need to put him on a plane. 378 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,000 Send this to Australia. 379 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,000 It looks like that's where he's from. 380 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,000 Aw, he was enormous. 381 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:16,000 And he was one of those ones that has like the big, like, it's got like a big butt, but his legs are really long. 382 00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,000 No, no, no, no. 383 00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:23,000 I held a really big dead spider the other day. 384 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:29,000 Because my friends has been brought it up from the basement and he's like, look at this and it was huge, but it was dead. 385 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:30,000 I mean, it was squash. 386 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:31,000 It was dry. 387 00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:32,000 That's not better. 388 00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,000 And he was like, do you want to hold it? 389 00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,000 And I was like, no, but I was like, no. 390 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:42,000 And then I was like, well, actually, yeah, let me just, it's just a dead spider body. 391 00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,000 You couldn't even feel it in your hand. 392 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,000 It was just there. 393 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:48,000 No. 394 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:49,000 No. 395 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:54,000 And I went out and I returned him to the earth. 396 00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:57,000 And I said, thank you for doing your spider duties. 397 00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:02,000 You've done a great job living in the basement for who knows how long catching other bugs. 398 00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,000 And I'm returning you to the earth. 399 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,000 I hate it so much. 400 00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:14,000 It checks two different boxes, one of which is that like I have an aversion to touching like dead stuff. 401 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:18,000 And then an aversion to spite like I can't, I can't. 402 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:24,000 It is trying to hover in this chair. 403 00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:25,000 I can't touch the floor. 404 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,000 It's lava covered in spiders. 405 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:28,000 Okay. 406 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:32,000 You can't touch the spider bodies. 407 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:33,000 Oh my god. 408 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,000 Oh my god. 409 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:37,000 Oh, yeah. 410 00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:38,000 Okay. 411 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,000 I felt like we needed like just a little palette cleanser because that was hard. 412 00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:42,000 Yeah, we did. 413 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,000 Are you done? 414 00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:45,000 Is it over? 415 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:46,000 That's over. 416 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:47,000 Yeah. 417 00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:48,000 I'm sorry. 418 00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:57,000 And I know most of you know too the little like thing I do is just like because I don't understand. 419 00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:58,000 It's things. 420 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:02,000 It doesn't make sense in my brain and all I can let out is a. 421 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:08,000 It's kind of like when the fan turns on on like your laptop. 422 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:13,000 She's processing like as fast and as hard as she can. 423 00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:17,000 But that's her fan. 424 00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,000 She can't quite get there. 425 00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:20,000 It will never make sense. 426 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:21,000 And that's okay. 427 00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:22,000 Yeah. 428 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:23,000 No, I mean, I think I'm okay with that. 429 00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:24,000 That's as it should be. 430 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:25,000 Who? 431 00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:26,000 Should we. 432 00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:27,000 Tera? 433 00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:28,000 Let's do some tarot. 434 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:29,000 Tarot. 435 00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:37,000 As indie podcasters, we love to show our support of other awesome shows. 436 00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,000 So stay tuned for the promo. 437 00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,000 We've got to share with you this week. 438 00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:42,500 Let's show them some love. 439 00:47:42,500 --> 00:47:51,000 You can find their info in our show notes. 440 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:55,160 In the heart of the desert where dreams are made and fortunes are lost lies a city that 441 00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,000 wears many faces. 442 00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:01,480 But beneath the neon lights in dazzling facade of Las Vegas there exists a world shrouded 443 00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:08,000 in shadows, a world of untold secrets, sins and survival. 444 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:12,000 Welcome to Sins of Survivors, a Las Vegas True Crime Podcast. 445 00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:13,000 I'm your host Sean. 446 00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,000 And I'm your co-host, John. 447 00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:20,000 Join us each week as we delve into the underbelly of this vibrant city, exploring its most unsettling 448 00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:26,000 true crime stories where the stakes are high and the truth is often darker than fiction. 449 00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,000 But this podcast goes beyond the crime scene tape. 450 00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:34,320 We unravel the intricacies of domestic violence exposing the raw and haunting realities that echo 451 00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,320 through the city's streets. 452 00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:40,400 As a journey through the lives of survivors the strength it takes to overcome and the 453 00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,480 sins that stain the neon skyline. 454 00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:46,480 From the infamous strip to the quiet suburbs. 455 00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:50,400 From the vast majave desert to the depths of Lake Mead. 456 00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:55,560 We bring you tales that make you question everything you thought you knew about Sins City. 457 00:48:55,560 --> 00:49:01,040 Sins and survivors is available now on Spotify, Apple podcasts, Amazon Music or wherever 458 00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,000 you get your podcasts. 459 00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:08,240 Subscribe now to uncover the stories that lurk behind the dazzling lights of Las Vegas because 460 00:49:08,240 --> 00:49:31,440 in this city of illusions the truth is the darkest bed of all. 461 00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:36,440 You guys were bad and don't worry we did get more wine. 462 00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,440 Well of course. 463 00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,440 Tearing it up. 464 00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,720 Okay. 465 00:49:44,720 --> 00:49:55,080 Should I lay these out and let you kind of tell my pointer finger where to stop? 466 00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:59,440 I'll just control your hands from where I'm at with my mind. 467 00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,440 Okay. 468 00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:02,440 Cool. 469 00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:06,440 They'll go where they need to go. 470 00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:07,440 Interesting. 471 00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:12,400 I kept seeing this one popping up in the bottom of the deck. 472 00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,240 It is the Ten of Cups. 473 00:50:15,240 --> 00:50:17,840 It's in reverse. 474 00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:21,760 Ten of Cups is the family one with the rainbow, right? 475 00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:22,760 It is. 476 00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:23,760 Yeah. 477 00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:31,160 Keywords are comfort, happiness, domestic bliss, love and harmony. 478 00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:37,240 It's one of the cards that we've talked about several times before and in our interpretation 479 00:50:37,240 --> 00:50:46,760 book it says you could think of this as the happy ever after card which just feels odd. 480 00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:51,360 So I'm waiting for there to be something. 481 00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:58,160 The reverse ten may point to disharmony or disappointments in your home life. 482 00:50:58,160 --> 00:50:59,160 Okay. 483 00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,280 Well perhaps there we are. 484 00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:05,200 As soon as you said it was reverse ten of Cups so I was like I know exactly where this 485 00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:06,200 is going. 486 00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:07,200 Damn it. 487 00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:08,200 Wow. 488 00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:11,320 Things haven't turned out the way you expected. 489 00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:18,320 Sometimes it suggests a family that puts too much emphasis on stuff and not enough on 490 00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:20,080 love. 491 00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:28,320 In some cases this card may represent the loss of a home or children leaving home. 492 00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:36,160 My guess is that if his wife was living in the area and they were rumored to have possibly 493 00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:38,120 had two children. 494 00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:39,920 Oh, interesting. 495 00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:41,760 There's two kids on the card too. 496 00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:42,760 Yeah. 497 00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:43,760 Isn't there? 498 00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:44,760 There. 499 00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:45,760 Yes. 500 00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:52,720 I would venture a guess to say that probably shortly after this occurred they I'm sure they 501 00:51:52,720 --> 00:51:54,400 would have left town. 502 00:51:54,400 --> 00:52:00,600 I hope they got out and went somewhere where they were accepted. 503 00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:02,600 Yeah. 504 00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:11,520 The family from what I understand did not live in Marshfield or Cusbe as it's known now 505 00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:12,520 proper. 506 00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:14,680 They lived in nearby Libby. 507 00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:22,760 So maybe that's how they were able to hopefully escape. 508 00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:29,240 In a reading about money the 10 reversed can mean having to scale down your expenditures 509 00:52:29,240 --> 00:52:31,520 and lifestyle. 510 00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:38,400 Sometimes it shows declining property values or squabbles over an inheritance. 511 00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:42,200 Scaling down your lifestyle just like I just heard calm the fuck down. 512 00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:43,200 Yeah. 513 00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:44,200 You need to calm down. 514 00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:45,200 You need to calm down. 515 00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:49,200 You need to be into fucking loud and knowing carrots. 516 00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:51,200 Really? 517 00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:58,480 If the reading is about your job this card says you're not as secure as you'd like to be. 518 00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:04,640 Problems within a company may threaten your position or a company may grow too fast 519 00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:09,600 or overextend itself requiring you to work extra hard. 520 00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:15,400 I mean, I suppose I could point to his small business. 521 00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:17,080 He did seem to work really hard. 522 00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:18,080 He did. 523 00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:19,080 He did. 524 00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:20,080 He did. 525 00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:21,080 All those jobs. 526 00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:22,080 Yeah. 527 00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:26,360 In a reading about love a partner may not share your values or may have different ideas 528 00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:28,720 about family life. 529 00:53:28,720 --> 00:53:36,680 Maybe you don't get along with the in-laws or kids from a former relationship cause problems. 530 00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:39,800 Or a mistress. 531 00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:40,800 Yeah. 532 00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:43,840 I would say that certainly could lead to problems. 533 00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:46,280 I'm like, I don't see where love went wrong in this story. 534 00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:47,280 What do you mean? 535 00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:48,280 Yeah. 536 00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:49,280 Yeah. 537 00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:57,600 I mean, it's certainly not any sort of a justification for how things have played out 538 00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:00,120 in this situation, but my God. 539 00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:01,120 Yeah. 540 00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:06,640 I mean, I'm just certain there's no way he would have predicted that. 541 00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:12,800 You know, what most people arguably would say is, you know, maybe not the most honorable 542 00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:21,040 choice would have turned out quite so deadly, so horrifically. 543 00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:27,040 And it's who knows what happened to, like if it was even true that they were having 544 00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:28,040 an affair. 545 00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:32,160 It's pretty well or it's pretty well documented. 546 00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:44,160 Or like why? 547 00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:57,120 No, it could be anything or he could just could have done something wrong and he didn't deserve 548 00:54:57,120 --> 00:54:59,120 to die either way. 549 00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:00,120 Right. 550 00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:01,120 Yeah. 551 00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:03,120 I mean, it's so it's so hard to say like what occurs between two people, you know, when they, 552 00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:05,640 at least believe to be, you know, in their own private space, it's, yeah, I mean, it would be 553 00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:11,800 impossible to say, but it just makes me think of like all the women who have affairs with 554 00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,560 men and power, like what are you going to do? 555 00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:17,040 Like who was more powerful in this situation? 556 00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:18,040 It wasn't him. 557 00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:19,880 I mean, that's true. 558 00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:20,880 Yeah. 559 00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:27,440 I mean, it's certainly, it's worth considering, you know, whether whatever the dealings were 560 00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:34,640 in this relationship, presumed relationship, he certainly wasn't, you know, in a position 561 00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:35,640 of power. 562 00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:42,520 Also, this is like one of the rare cards that is like basically completely opposite in reverse 563 00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:44,320 because that doesn't always happen. 564 00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:45,320 That's very true. 565 00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:53,440 A lot of cards are like, I mean, just like a such a minuscule difference between the upright 566 00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:54,440 and the reverse. 567 00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:55,440 Yeah. 568 00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:57,240 Look at you. 569 00:55:57,240 --> 00:56:02,880 She's just such a, she's such an astute little tarot witchy bitchy. 570 00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:10,520 Yeah, and it just, it's, there's so much happiness on that card and just like a home and family. 571 00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:14,680 And then it just like, it's just like flipped and all on a test. 572 00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:21,040 I mean, if you think about it, that's really like very representative of, of what's happened 573 00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:26,760 here because to everyone, yeah, really, I mean, not, not all the white people, but you know 574 00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:27,760 what I mean. 575 00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:28,760 Right. 576 00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:29,760 Yeah. 577 00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:34,520 Yeah. 578 00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:40,440 If you love to listening to that Tara Read and you want to see it, if you want to see Cassie 579 00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:45,800 hanging out in her bedroom alone and Caitlin hanging on her bedroom alone, then you can 580 00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:51,640 be a common member of our Patreon or a video of every Tara Read is uploaded with the ad-free 581 00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:57,680 version of the episode every week, which is pretty cool because ads are, you know, they 582 00:56:57,680 --> 00:56:59,000 kind of interrupt your flow. 583 00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:00,160 They're sort of a bummer. 584 00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:02,680 I don't mind them, but some people do. 585 00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:05,520 Also, we hope I'm in my room alone. 586 00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:11,840 I'm reportedly allegedly alone, but I guess I have a couple of fur balls, but you get the 587 00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:12,840 idea. 588 00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:13,840 True. 589 00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:14,840 Yeah. 590 00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:15,840 Goose. 591 00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:16,840 Boo. 592 00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:17,840 Ah. 593 00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:22,640 Patreon is a monthly subscription with a range of price points and benefits. 594 00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:30,000 Which member of our Patreon gets a personalized welcome card, which is accompanied by their own 595 00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:35,480 mini-Tero reading and shout out in an upcoming episode. 596 00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:40,640 You'll also get exclusive bonus episodes and so much more. 597 00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:42,160 We post a lot. 598 00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:44,160 We post pictures of shit we're doing. 599 00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:48,120 We post videos of us unboxing fun things. 600 00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:55,720 Yeah, which has actually become like kind of a regular phenomenon. 601 00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:56,720 Yeah. 602 00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:57,720 So, no more gifts. 603 00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:04,160 Periodically, we receive things, okay, whether it's advanced copies of books or presents 604 00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:08,680 from our most precious of patrons. 605 00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:13,880 If you cannot support us monetarily, no worries because the easiest way is to support 606 00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:17,040 are in fact absolutely free. 607 00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:22,480 We'll tell everyone and anyone that you come into contact with about us or leave us a 608 00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:25,560 five star review on any platform you can. 609 00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:32,360 However, if they are a dick, you don't have to feel obligated to tell them, I guess. 610 00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:33,360 Yeah. 611 00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:36,120 And you know, me and Caitlyn really tell everyone about us. 612 00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:39,240 So I feel like you all should be supporting us in that. 613 00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:41,960 So we're not alone just talking to people about us. 614 00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:42,960 Yeah. 615 00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:48,640 And I'm pretty narcissistic to be us talking about us to other people, but if you guys do 616 00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:52,280 it, then it kind of seems more legit. 617 00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:53,280 Yeah. 618 00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:54,280 Totally. 619 00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:57,520 Also, make sure to follow and subscribe on the platforms. 620 00:58:57,520 --> 00:58:58,520 Do that. 621 00:58:58,520 --> 00:58:59,520 Please do that. 622 00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:01,960 It'll let you know when we have new episodes. 623 00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:06,720 If you have any true crime, paranormal or witchy stories to submit for our listener, 624 00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:12,920 appreciation episodes, the creepy people chronicles, please email us at pnwhauntsandhomicides@gmail.com 625 00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:19,280 or you can use our handy dandy Google contact link in the episode description. 626 00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:24,760 Remember, you're always welcome to remain anonymous and your stories do not have to be from 627 00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:27,480 the Pacific Northwest if you'd like to share. 628 00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:32,880 We like a worldwide baby, preferably from a beach, apparently. 629 00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:35,760 Sometimes follow us on all the socials. 630 00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:40,920 If you don't want to miss out on photos of our tarot cards, our beautiful alter setups 631 00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:48,400 and a lot of backstage shenanigans, which reminds me, I visited Ravens Manor after I talked 632 00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:50,080 about it for the Krampus episode. 633 00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:56,120 I know it's been a couple episodes now, but I went after season to see all the Krampus 634 00:59:56,120 --> 01:00:01,200 drinks and decorations and the cookie and the child's doom. 635 01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:03,160 It looks so magical. 636 01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:04,160 It was so fun. 637 01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:08,120 So go watch my Tik Tok, reel, doohicky video I made for it. 638 01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:10,120 I love a doohicky. 639 01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:15,520 You can find our link tree, which also has our website (pnwhauntsandhomicides.com) in the description of this episode 640 01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:18,760 to check out all the fun that we have to offer. 641 01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:20,440 There is fun, aplenty. 642 01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:24,920 Especially in this episode, just like tons of fun. 643 01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:26,720 So much fun. 644 01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:28,920 We are fun and serious. 645 01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:32,160 We are a lot of things. 646 01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:34,360 Have a creepy ass day. 647 01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:35,360 The creepiest. 648 01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:42,280 Did I just put chapstick on twice? 649 01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:43,280 Maybe. 650 01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:46,920 I mean, better twice than not at all. 651 01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:50,920 Sometimes if I leave it in my hand, I can't remember if I actually put it on or not. 652 01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:52,960 So I do it again. 653 01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:54,960 You're so cute. 654 01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:55,960 Thanks. 655 01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:57,560 You're so cute and funny and smart. 656 01:00:57,560 --> 01:00:58,560 So are you. 657 01:00:58,560 --> 01:01:02,160 And you're just a little witchy as strong power. 658 01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:04,680 I don't pay one. 659 01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:07,040 Unless you use your powers for evil.