Episode 1: Forest Park Homicides

Intro Music: 0:35

[Spooky piano]

Caitlyn: 0:36

Hi, Cassie.

Cassie: 0:36

Hi, Caitlyn, How are you?

Caitlyn: 0:39

I'm so excited. We're recording an intro. We're gonna give it a another stab today.

Cassie: 0:44

Yeah, we are.

Caitlyn: 0:44

We got a little off topic last time.

Cassie: 0:47

Yeah, we tried to record an intro and it was what? 50 minutes long?

Caitlyn: 0:51

Yeah, I think so. didn't really feel very intro-y. I

Cassie: 0:54

It was ridiculous, so. We're gonna try again, after this intro, the case that follows will sound a little different because we are using a different microphone.

Caitlyn: 1:04

Yeah.

Cassie: 1:04

So just just a warning.

Caitlyn: 1:06

AKA, uh not that great one.

Cassie: 1:10

We all havde to have a bad, you know, microphone experience right?

Caitlyn: 1:12

It's a rite of passage, I think as a podcaste, so. So here we go.

Cassie: 1:18

Um, welcome, anyone and everyone listening.

Caitlyn: 1:21

Yeah.

Cassie: 1:22

This is our podcast.

Caitlyn: 1:23

Yay, Pacific Northwest Haunts & Homicides.

Cassie: 1:27

Ooooo.

Caitlyn: 1:28

We're gonna abbreviate it just so you guys know, don't be confused. It's PNW.

Cassie: 1:33

Yep, we're gonna shorten it PNW. So we'll be saying PNW a lot.

Caitlyn: 1:37

PNW

Cassie: 1:38

PNW.

Caitlyn: 1:38

PNW.

Cassie: 1:38

It's gonna get annoying, so.

Caitlyn: 1:40

Yeah, I'm not saying Pacific Northwest every goddamn time.

Cassie: 1:46

It's a mouthful.

Caitlyn: 1:47

Yeah, really is. Okay, so why did we start this pod? Again?

Cassie: 1:52

I don't really remember. But I feel like there was a shortage of true crime and paranormal podcasts in the world and we just needed like to fill that void for everyone. So you're welcome.

Caitlyn: 2:04

Yeah. And also, I just want to hear about shit that's happening in my own neighborhood so that I never sleep and never want to leave my house again.

Cassie: 2:11

Yeah, that's a good one. We hear about stuff you know, all over the world, but not too much over here.

Caitlyn: 2:18

Yeah, there's just there's so much more out there than like the super stereotypical cases that you hear over and over and over again, aka Bundy.

Cassie: 2:28

I know Bundy.

Caitlyn: 2:29

Yeah never Bundy.

Cassie: 2:30

We talk about him later.

Caitlyn: 2:36

We do, but we don't. Um, so I guess how the heck did we ever met?

Cassie: 2:44

We met in high school. Isn't that weird?

Caitlyn: 2:47

That was basically like, 150 years ago.

Cassie: 2:49

It was a long time ago. We're really old.

Caitlyn: 2:51

We're pretty old.

Cassie: 2:51

We're not gonna like say our ages. But we're all ladies.

Caitlyn: 2:57

I'm currently celebrating the 200th anniversary of my 25th birthday. Yay.

Cassie: 3:03

We're actually vampires.

Caitlyn: 3:04

Yeah. Super cool.

Cassie: 3:09

Yeah, we met in high school. We kind of didn't really keep in touch after high school and then we reconnected, um, really recently. Cuz we both realize that we have a-

Caitlyn: 3:21

Are super creepy.

Cassie: 3:21

Yeah, we have a passion for creepy shit.

Caitlyn: 3:25

Yeah. And so here we are. I mean, just you now get to enjoy the fruits of all of those creepy labors.

Cassie: 3:35

Did we ever talk about creepy shit in high school?

Caitlyn: 3:37

I don't think we really did. No.

Cassie: 3:39

What did we talk about?

Caitlyn: 3:40

I wasn't nearly as creepy in highschool.

Cassie: 3:42

I know we were too cool.

Caitlyn: 3:44

Yeah I know we were trying to be really cool.

Cassie: 3:47

All we talked about were boys.

Caitlyn: 3:49

Yeah.

Cassie: 3:50

Stupid boys. You know who you are. Like they're all listening right now.

Caitlyn: 3:58

And now we're just at this stage where in our 225th year of life that especially with quarantine, too. I just give zero fucks.

Cassie: 4:09

No.

Caitlyn: 4:09

I'm like, Let's drink some wine and talk about some creepy shit.

Cassie: 4:13

Exactly.

Caitlyn: 4:14

Yeah.

Cassie: 4:14

Cheeeeers! We are drinking a ros.

Caitlyn: 4:18

Ros, all day.

Cassie: 4:20

I'm drinking out of a coffee mug.

Caitlyn: 4:22

But I mean, it is pretty cool because it's literally I feel like is that going to be a merch item at some point

Cassie: 4:29

Probably. It has our name on it.

Caitlyn: 4:33

Our actual names and that our pod name. My boyfriend made it, it's pretty cool.

Cassie: 4:38

Maybe like we can sell them with, um, your name on it so they can be customized to yours as an audience listening. Also, I just want to clarify that we're not professionals by any means. Um, any opinions that we come up with out of our brains, um...

Caitlyn: 5:00

They're not scientific.

Cassie: 5:02

No, take them with a grain of salt. They're all from whatever we read off the internet.

Caitlyn: 5:06

We'll, let you know, we decided to get real academic and shit.

Cassie: 5:09

Yeah, if we ever get like a degree in crime, is that a thing?

Caitlyn: 5:13

No. criminology.

Cassie: 5:15

Yeah. criminology that's what I was thinking,

Caitlyn: 5:17

Or forensic science, yeah.

Cassie: 5:18

That's what I was thinking.

Caitlyn: 5:19

Yeah.

Cassie: 5:19

A degree in crime, like?

Caitlyn: 5:20

I might do that. I mean, honestly, at this point, I have so much in student loans. I feel like I should just like tack on some more.

Cassie: 5:27

Why not?

Caitlyn: 5:28

What are they gonna do?

Cassie: 5:30

Yeah, get another degree. She's really like the smart one in this in this pair. I will not go and get a degree. That's all i;m gonna say.

Caitlyn: 5:40

I say words like ampersand.

Cassie: 5:43

Ampersand. And I say and sign.

Caitlyn: 5:48

Well, I used to say and sign but I was shamed into saying ampersand, so. So here we are, now there's gonna be an 'ampersign'. Ampersand!

Cassie: 5:58

'Ampersign!'

Caitlyn: 5:58

Fuck! There's is gonna be an ampersand in our logo.

Cassie: 6:04

Oooo yeah, it's gonna be fancy.

Caitlyn: 6:07

So fancy.

Cassie: 6:09

Is there anything else that you wanted to say? Or should we just get into the case?

Caitlyn: 6:16

I think just get into the case. I want to hear some creepy shit.

Cassie: 6:20

Let's go talk about creepy shit. 1,2,3 go?

Caitlyn: 6:23

Go!

Cassie: 6:24

Okay, should we get into some true crime?

Caitlyn: 6:30

Muuurder.

Cassie: 6:30

Murder.

Caitlyn: 6:31

On Wednesdays we wear murder. Okay, I'm gonna get into it.

Cassie: 6:38

Okay.

Caitlyn: 6:39

So this is the one that I was telling you, um, that I was asked, Are you sure that you want to start the case like this.

Cassie: 6:46

Ooooo this one.

Caitlyn: 6:47

Yeah. And I was like, Yeah, I think I think so. Okay, because, I mean, I want to just like, keep it keep it, you know, loose.

Cassie: 6:55

Yeah.

Caitlyn: 6:55

Get funky like, just feel it and be conversational. But I put together some notes, obviously. And, um, I feel like people are interested in like, kind of some of the pertinent information, like the background on, you know, serial killers, or you know, anybody that we're talking about in relation to true crime.

Cassie: 7:15

I love background. I'm aackground whore.

Caitlyn: 7:18

Well, I actually, so when I was asked, I literally had that like, gotcha moment, because I was like, you know, this person born dada-dada, and they're like, Wait, do people actually care about like, you know, when they're born or like, I was like, oh, people care about when serial killers were born. Because literally on one of our like, podcast found groups. There was a meme that somebody put up that showed all of the signs.

Cassie: 7:51

Oh, yeah.

Caitlyn: 7:51

Of like infamous serial killers. And I was like, Girl, you gotta steer clear of those Gemini, Virgo, and Sagittariuses like.

Cassie: 8:00

I'm non of those are you?

Caitlyn: 8:02

No, I'm a Leo.

Cassie: 8:02

Nice, I'm a cancer. We're not murders.

Caitlyn: 8:07

Yeah, and not murderer.

Cassie: 8:08

No that at all Geminis and whatever murderers.

Caitlyn: 8:10

Most of them though.

Cassie: 8:13

Watch, out.

Caitlyn: 8:14

Just speak with impunity.

Cassie: 8:17

Watch yo back.

Caitlyn: 8:17

With no qualifiers or anything. Yeah, just murdering. Okay, so this is a case that actually took place in Portland and it's a pretty well known park where all of the victims were found. Everybody around here knows about like this park. You've probably been there hiking.

Cassie: 8:38

Which park? Oh, God dont tell me. I love hiking.

Caitlyn: 8:40

I love hiking too.

Cassie: 8:41

Oh, no, no, no. Which one?

Caitlyn: 8:43

Yeah. Okay. So, Todd Alan Reid was born May 22nd, 1967. And he was later known as the 'Forest Park Killer.'

Cassie: 8:55

I knew it!

Caitlyn: 8:58

There have been so many, it was actually kind of hard to research this one because there have been a lot of other people that have dumped bodies there over the years.

Cassie: 9:07

I'm always when I'm hiking literally looking for bodies, looking in the trees and like, I'm gonna find a damn body one day.

Caitlyn: 9:16

Or I'm worried about becoming the body. I'm like-

Cassie: 9:19

I don't wanna be the body.

Caitlyn: 9:20

Yeah, well, I don't either. But that's what I worry about. I'm like I'm never gonna find a body.

Cassie: 9:25

Don't hike alone you guys.

Caitlyn: 9:26

Don't hike alone.

Cassie: 9:27

Dont do it.

Caitlyn: 9:27

The buddy system.They've been teaching us this for years. Yeah, I mean, just stay alive. So in my notes, I was like, but like, who really cares about his birthday or what his side was honestly, but people care about that shit. Um, I'd only say shit because he's just such an abominable shit monster. Yeah.

Cassie: 9:53

I don't want to hear about it. Let's just stop.

Caitlyn: 9:59

Aaaand that's the case!

Cassie: 10:01

Byeeee!

Caitlyn: 10:01

We're gonna talk about Cassie's now.

Cassie: 10:03

No.

Caitlyn: 10:05

So he's a Pacific Northwest serial killer and sex off- sex offender who victimized three homeless women that we know of in the Rose City between April and June of 1999. So right before Y2K, the world was kind of wild

Cassie: 10:23

Y2K, oh my God!

Caitlyn: 10:26

Does that trake you back?

Cassie: 10:27

That takes me way back. Do you know, like, do you remember what you were doing on Y2K?

Caitlyn: 10:34

Not really, but I do remember that we had a lot of canned food just to be safe.

Cassie: 10:39

I don't think my parents were like, worried about it. But like, I remember that I was on the phone, I think with one of my best friends. Like as the- the ball dropped or whatever. And we were like, what if like, the phone just cuts off after this. And like, we can't ever talk on the phone. No, we were totally fine. Everything was good.

Caitlyn: 10:58

Yeah, as you well know. Spoiler alert.

Cassie: 11:01

Yeah spoiler alert!

Caitlyn: 11:02

The world do not end, weird. Um, so he was convicted for his crimes related to these women's deaths after dumping their bodies in Forest Park. So creepy.

Cassie: 11:16

Do you know which part?

Caitlyn: 11:17

Um, I'm not sure. Like exactly that I can pinpoint. Um, for one of my other cases, I do have like a literal pin drop that I've got a little bit of post with the case notes and stuff.

Cassie: 11:29

Great.

Caitlyn: 11:29

Yeah, it's super creepy. And I've- I've been to, um, a couple of like, the little like bars and like concert venues, like different places around this neighborhood for my other case, so that's really creepy. We'll, we'll talk about it.

Cassie: 11:44

Becuase Forest Park is huge, so.

Caitlyn: 11:46

It is huge. Yeah. So that's why like, in this case, the bodies were found in Forest Park, but it's big enough that you can be somewhere in the park. And somebody else can be in the park like.

Cassie: 12:01

Yeah.

Caitlyn: 12:01

You know, a quarter of a mile away and-

Cassie: 12:03

And you'd never know. You'd never know. Yeah. Um, so little is known about his younger years prior to the murders, um but he was already a registered sex offender- Great.

Caitlyn: 12:13

By the tender age of 14.

Cassie: 12:15

Oh my gosh how?

Caitlyn: 12:18

So really living his best life right from the start just -

Cassie: 12:22

You're a freaking child at 14? What are you doing?

Caitlyn: 12:25

Yeah, how? How? I just I don't get it. But here we are. So um, he was actually placed in a residential program and then later released, because he was not seen as a threat. Yeah, so I don't have a lot of-

Cassie: 12:39

Smart move.

Caitlyn: 12:39

Yeah, I don't have a lot of details about um what landed him on the registry initially. It'd be interesting to maybe do some follow up on that. And, you know, share a little bit more about that. But um he, he definitely had a pattern at a very early age of some very dark sexual tendencies to put it lightly. So he was married to Gail Bennett in the summer of 1986. He was 19. And she was 15.

Cassie: 13:13

Wow.

Caitlyn: 13:14

Yeah. So really just yucking it up,

Cassie: 13:17

What year was that?

Caitlyn: 13:18

Just yucking it up. Uh 1986

Cassie: 13:20

Do you- do you have to have your parents permission to get married?

Caitlyn: 13:24

You do typically under the age of 18.

Cassie: 13:26

When you're 15, yeah.

Caitlyn: 13:27

Yeah. So you know, maybe she needs a little parental guidance. Yeah, I hate to yuck. anybody's yum, but just that's not great. I don't I don't love that.

Cassie: 13:40

Don't get married. Oh my gosh, don't get married until you're 30 get married. younger than 30.

Caitlyn: 13:48

Also, like if the person that you're with technically like they're far enough apart in age that that's statutory rape.

Cassie: 13:57

Yeah!

Caitlyn: 13:57

So I feel like yeah, they just get married so that like they wouldn't get in trouble. I don't know. I dont Yeah seems like he's really got a lot of winning have a lot of infprmation around that.

Cassie: 14:04

Im sure it was his idea. ideas. You'll see. You'll see. So she later divorced him in 1997. Um I don't know, I can't imagine why. You know, I know a Oh, ok. few things about this guy. And I'm just thinking man, he seems like catch. The early years of their newly married life. They started out couch surfing and/or camped.

Caitlyn: 14:34

And his ex wife basically reported that he was very secretive. He would be hiding porno mags and he allegedly, well I would say not allegedly. I'm sure she's got the telephone statement, you know the bills to prove it. But he was running up their telephone bill with phone sex lines. So dude just really had kind of a compulsion I would say

Cassie: 15:02

I mean if you're into that if you're in a porn and if you want to like, yeah listen to sex on the phone, whatever, share it with your damn wife.

Caitlyn: 15:09

Yeah.

Cassie: 15:10

I'm sure she'd love it too. \

Caitlyn: 15:11

Yeah maybe shes into that. Yeah I feel like ye h it yeah needs to be shared.

Cassie: 15:12

Do it togther, share. Share your kink man with your- with our significant other.

Caitlyn: 15:20

Yeah we dont kink shame. If that's what your into, get it. But, um, some things just really they took a turn. Before he committed these murders before he actually was convicted. Before his crimes escalated to rape and murder he was arrested for sexually assaulting a 24 year old pregnant woman at knifepoint. Because making a tiny human inside your body isn't really enough work or stress. Right? We just got to add another layer in there really just. Yeah, I mean, that's a that's gonna ruin your week at a minimum.

Cassie: 15:59

That's fucked up.

Caitlyn: 16:00

I didn't care for that.

Cassie: 16:01

What a dick.

Caitlyn: 16:01

Yeah, it's a real dick stain. Um, he worked at Rinella Produce, which seems innocuous enough, but around this time, is when multiple women that were already kind of living on the edge, disappeared. So a little bit of background about these women. Um, I read several articles. And actually there was I think it was an ID documentary that I watched a short clip from. So his three victims were Lilla Faye Moler, she was 28. Stephanie Lynn Russell, who was 26 and Alexandria Nicole Ison, who was actually only 17. So I do feel like there's a little bit of a pattern of him, unfortunately, abusing underage girls. That piece of it really sets me off. That's, it's-it's upsetting, to say the least, to put it mildly.

Cassie: 16:59

I mea it's upsetting to abuse anyone but like innocent children.

Caitlyn: 17:04

Right.

Cassie: 17:05

Come on.

Caitlyn: 17:06

Somebody who's under age. And I mean, as you'll see, I'm not going to go into it in depth, because I- I don't think that I don't think it's fair to talk too much about kind of what these women were experiencing. Because I think, you know, that can read as a little bit of like tone deafness about, I don't want to be ever, ever in the vein of like victim blaming or anything like that.

Cassie: 17:32

No, yeah.

Caitlyn: 17:32

But you'll see how, you know, these women were really, they were in a bad way. So Lilla suffered from mental health issues. Stephanie was a homeless sex worker. And Alexandria was a transit teenager who had very well documented drug issues. So these are definitely women that are vulnerable. And again, you know, it's a situation where, you know, we say this, because we're really trying to get across that this is someone that took advantage of women that he thought maybe couldn't take care of themselves. You know, probably to a degree thought these are women that maybe nobody's going to come looking for them.

Cassie: 18:14

Yeah.

Caitlyn: 18:14

So that's a sad, I mean, we see that a lot. We see that a lot. Um, I will tell you the bright spot is that that was not the case at all.

Cassie: 18:24

Good.

Caitlyn: 18:25

Yeah, people were looking for them and people cared about them. And yeah, and fuck you, Todd.

Cassie: 18:31

Good, good, good. I'm glad, that makes me happy.

Caitlyn: 18:31

So it just goes to show though, that Todd being piece of

Cassie: 18:33

Yeah snd she was 17. Like, she had plenty of time to shit that he was he just targeted vulnerable women, you know, that he's thinking perhaps no one's gonna miss. But I think especially like I said, you know, the bright side is that that's not the case. You know, I looked at that ID documentary, a short clip from that. And a big part of that was Alexandria, his youngest victim, her mom being interviewed. And she said, you know, I knew that Alexandria was basically, you know, she's a girl in trouble. And, you know, she's, you know, homeless, and I know that there were some drug issues there. But like, you know, you could just see that the love for her daughter doesn't diminish by any of that, and it never should. get her shit together and-

Caitlyn: 19:23

Right, right.

Cassie: 19:24

And she could have Yeah, could have been great.

Caitlyn: 19:27

17 you're still allowed to fuck up.

Cassie: 19:29

Yeah.

Caitlyn: 19:29

For sure. I mean, all three of these women were really living outside the lines a little bit, um, and it's not a judgement. It's just a reflection of that that made them vulnerable. So Lilla went missing in April of 1999. Her body was later found by a couple out walking their dog on May 7, so she'd been missing for a while. This was several days after she was initially reported missing. Todd was a suuuper huge dumbass here and left a condom filled with his DNA at that scene.

Cassie: 20:05

Smart.

Caitlyn: 20:05

Less than 30 feet away from her body.

Cassie: 20:08

What a genius.

Caitlyn: 20:08

Yeah, yeah. So this was one thing that definitely in my head back and forth, back and forth. I'm like, what the hell? He uses a condom, right? And you're thinking, Okay, this is, you know, prior to really the huge prolification of DNA evidence in the courtroom, right? That's just not as big of a thing. So you're wondering, okay, so if you, maybe he wasn't even trying to avert DNA detection, but then why did he use a condom? And then why did he leave it there? It's just stupid.

Cassie: 20:40

Yeah.

Caitlyn: 20:40

So my running theory is at least that he knowing that these women were potentially sex workers or were transient and/or drug users, he was concerned about being able to catch some sort of a serious infectious disease.

Cassie: 20:58

Oh, yeah. He was so scared of STDs.

Caitlyn: 21:01

Yeah. Yeah. Not too afraid to kill people. But definitely afraid of the clap.

Cassie: 21:06

Obviously. He's selfish. So yeah, yeah. Makes a lot of sense.

Caitlyn: 21:10

Yeah. Um, yeah, I'm just really happy that he was a world class dumb ass and left that condom filled with his DNA by her body.

Cassie: 21:20

Good job.

Caitlyn: 21:20

Less than 30 feet. Like, was he thinking that they were just gonna find that and be like, oh well, that was just somebody having sex in the park. It has nothing to do with this dead girl.

Cassie: 21:30

There's so many comdoms here.

Caitlyn: 21:31

Yeah, what the fuck. Um, so it was suspected that the second victim Stephanie was found much sooner after her murder, because she was found very near to where Willow was initially found. So I think at that point, there's already some heightened awareness, they've already found one body very close by. So that in a way, it was that it was a help to investigators. Alexandria was also found very close to the other victims. Although after being assaulted and murdered, her body had rolled down a hill. So she was found by a hiker on June 2. What's really interesting about this case, and I told you, I kind of have an overarching theory about how this guy got started what he was about, so give you kind of the background and then I'll explain kind of what my thoughts are cuz he's in jail, and I don't care about straight up just dragging him. It is also suspected that he is possibly responsible for the deaths of Jennifer Lynn. And I'm going to stumble here because I'm not sure. On the pronunciation of her last name, but I think it's 'cheer' (Tchir). It looks like it's maybe an Eastern European last name. So I' m probably butchering it, I'm very sorry. It's T-C-H-I-R.

Cassie: 22:56

How's it spelled? Should we Google it?

Caitlyn: 23:02

Yeah.

Cassie: 23:04

Please hold while your lovely, beautiful, talented, hilarious hosts Google how to pronounce a word.

Google: 23:15

'Cheer' (Tchir)

Caitlyn: 23:16

'Cher?'

Cassie: 23:16

'Cheer' (Tchir), 'Cheer' (Tchir)

Caitlyn: 23:16

Ok, so I was- I was at least close.

Google: 23:18

'Cheer' (Tchir)

Caitlyn: 23:19

I was at least close.

Google: 23:21

'Cheer' (Tchir)

Caitlyn: 23:23

Okay, yeah. Okay. So Jennifer was actually a friend of you'll remember he was married to a real nice lady named Gail. And the other victim that has been at least that he's not convicted of either of these crimes, just to just to put that out there. But these are believed to be possible victims of his as well. The second is Mindy Colleen Thomas, who was just 12.

Cassie: 23:51

Oh no!

Caitlyn: 23:53

Yep. She was last seen in the company of yet again, his ex wife, Gail.

Cassie: 24:00

Oh.

Caitlyn: 24:01

Yeah. So weird. How just Gail's like kind of like hanging out with all these people that just sort of like disappeared.

Cassie: 24:06

Interesting.

Caitlyn: 24:06

And she said her husba nd turns out to be a serial killer and violent sex offender. Weird

Cassie: 24:11

Interesting, Gail. What's going on there?

Caitlyn: 24:12

Yeah. So yeah. So I think what initially happened because these two cases actually were prior. So these two disappearances, these two women that were you know, later found. They happened prior to these other three women he was actually convicted for. So I think what happened there is they went for some low hanging fruit. And I think that he definitely I feel like there's a demonstrated pattern potentially that he was into underage girls. And I think that they targeted them. And then they thought, gosh, you know what, this is too hot. Like we can't like they're going to be hot on our trail for this basically. And so I think that they turned their attention to women that again, they thought They could get away with it. And there's no there's no evidence at least, that I found in my research that Gail was involved with any of the other murders. They were divorced by the time that those other women disappeared and were murdered. So there's there's no link there. But it does seem like it's a little too coincidental that she was either seen with or was friends with the other two girls that were killed prior to this.

Cassie: 25:28

That's kind of interesting, like, why was she hanging out with a 12 year old? That's kind of what I want to know.

Caitlyn: 25:33

Seems a little odd, seems a little odd.

Cassie: 25:35

That is kind of weird.

Caitlyn: 25:37

I don't know. I mean, that girl. So Jennifer, the first victim went missing July 3 1987. She wasn't found until more than a year later, just three miles away from another possible victim, Mindy, the second one who was 12 years old who Gail was the person that she was last seen with went missing a month to the day later on August 3 1987. The only thing that I can think of is that, you know, sure this second victim, you know, she was 12 at the time, Gail, when she married Todd was what do we say? She was 15? Yeah, so in '87, she still would have been a fairly young teenager herslef.

Cassie: 26:21

That's true.

Caitlyn: 26:22

So I mean, I think it's unlikely that a 16 year old and a 12 year old are like just these inseparable buddies. And definitely there was no indication that it was like, they were good friends or anything like that. But um, yeah, it's interesting. There's definitely there's some variables there to explore. So this case, actually, like I said, there, the bright spot is that, you know, there were family members and friends that actually they cared, they were looking for these women. The other really cool thing that we don't always see, especially in cases like this, is that the local police department actually, like really went into high gear on this, you know, we found three women in the same Park, you know, within a very short stretch of time, that definitely smacks of, you know, potentially a serial killer. That's what they thought that they had on their hands.

Cassie: 27:15

I wonder if they- they really cracked down on it because it was, like such a highly used area that they were found in? You know.

Caitlyn: 27:23

It does make you wonder, because it's definitely a nice park.

Cassie: 27:27

Yeah.

Caitlyn: 27:27

It's in a- it's in a nicer area. It definitely, you know, this isn't in some industrial or kind of crappy area where, oh, we just like crime happened there. Because we don't care.

Cassie: 27:39

Yeah, I wonder.

Caitlyn: 27:40

It's interesting. Actually, this is kind of a, it's really interesting about this case, because you don't hear stuff like this very often. But the Portland Police Bureau sent out an undercover officer.

Cassie: 27:53

Oooooo I like an undercover cop!

Caitlyn: 27:55

Oooooo under cover ops!

Cassie: 27:57

That's so fun!

Caitlyn: 27:58

So um, they did that in July in order to try and catch the killer, and they actually struch gold.

Cassie: 28:04

Nice.

Caitlyn: 28:05

I know, unreal. So statements made by those last seen, or last to see the victims lead the police to Todd Alan Reed. They did actually during the undercover sting, he pulled up to the undercover officer who was posing on a corner as a, you know, sex worker.

Cassie: 28:24

And it was a woman?

Caitlyn: 28:25

And she- she got a bad vibe. And they basically like pulled his plate, they were able to, you know, eventually link him based on the statements from witnesses. I know, unreal. Like they really like that's part luck part good police work.

Cassie: 28:42

Great!

Caitlyn: 28:43

Yeah, it was great. So he was arrested a short time after the sting operation on July 18th 1999. So, I mean, these women were, you know, they were missing and found, the last one was found on June 2. So we're talking lots of very short turnaround. I mean, sometimes that can take them several months, or even years to be able to investigate really complex cases, but they went to town. So I feel like this is a it's a good example of what can happen when law enforcement does take notice of what's happening in the community. And, you know, maybe they went about it just because they, you know, realize that this is like in an area where that is just not going to fly. You know, again, we're talking about you know, this is definitely a more socio economically advantaged area.

Cassie: 29:38

Yeah.

Caitlyn: 29:40

But either way, I mean, I'm I'm happy you just that they were able to move quickly and get this guy off the street. This is also another one where you worry oftentimes now especially we hear so many cases where somebody's conviction has been overturned because of DNA evidence. Obviously, Todd left his DNA behind. Yeah. So you know, again, just in case you're worried about a false conviction, which we all should, of course, his DNA was matched to that found at multiplecrime scenes.

Cassie: 30:13

Multiple.

Caitlyn: 30:15

Yeah. So, uh.

Cassie: 30:17

I was kind of wondering like, yeah, maybe he just like to get down and dirty in the forest.

Caitlyn: 30:21

Right.

Cassie: 30:22

And like.

Caitlyn: 30:22

Yeah.

Cassie: 30:23

He just...

Caitlyn: 30:23

No, he was already divorced. At that point. It doesn't sound like there was another lovely lady. Life. So I mean, unless he was having 'consexsual', consensual sex in the park with, you know, sex workers. Who just so happened to show up-

Cassie: 30:39

Right.

Caitlyn: 30:40

You know, dead later. Yeah, nope. Todd, we got you, buddy. We're near you to the wall. broski.

Cassie: 30:50

Byeee Todd.

Caitlyn: 30:50

Fuck you.

Cassie: 30:51

Is it Todd with one D or 2 D's?

Caitlyn: 30:53

It's 2 D's

Cassie: 30:54

It has to be 2 D's of course.

Caitlyn: 30:58

Here's what kind of I I really it annoyed me. It's Todd with two D's, Alan with one L. A-L-A-N. Alan. Alan. Alon. Elon! No! no. Anyways really went off

Cassie: 31:09

What? oh goodness. the rails there. So February 23rd 2001. Todd pled guilty to the three murders in order to avoid the death penalty, because it turns out he's a big, fat coward. And I'm sure he knew.

Caitlyn: 31:34

Yeah. Like, he's like, Oh, right. I'm sorry. I forgot about how I just left DNA behind all of the crime scenes. He was then sentenced to three consecutive life terms, which is why I can so freely talk shit about him. Like, bro, you're never getting out? I, yep, I have

Cassie: 31:55

You're done.

Caitlyn: 31:56

I'm not worried. I'm not worried. I will drag you through the mud shamelessly. So he was question but never charged for the additional two victims that we talked about. Which it sounds like that could be just due to lack- due to lack of substantial evidence, you know, anything, forensic or otherwise, but he didn't admit to them? No, apparently they didn't get him to confess. It doesn't sound like he actually confessed to the three that he was convicted of, actually.

Cassie: 32:27

Oh.

Caitlyn: 32:27

I think they just had so much evidence, you know, that it was like, well, we don't really need you to confess. So do what you want. I just think it's, it's kind of sad. Because I think that part of why they weren't maybe able to get a conviction, as I think it was lack of evidence, looking at the case. You know, after I'd really read through everything, and put together my notes. Jennifer, she was the first of the victims that went missing in the late '80s. She wasn't found until you know, a year later, more than a year later. So I think that a lot of times what happens, especially when the body has been dumped, you know, in a public site, evidence is just degraded.

Cassie: 33:14

Yeah. Was she dumped in the park to?

Caitlyn: 33:17

Um, I wasn't able to find a ton of specific information about where specifically those two girls were found. So I don't think they were actually found in Forest Park, they were found in a different area. It's always a little bit tough to to find kind of some of the specifics when it's, he wasn't convicted of those crimes. Yeah. You know, both of those victims are minors. So there's a lot of things like that, that kind of keep you they become a little bit of a barrier to be able to find a lot of good information. So and I thought this was kind of interesting, Todd was adopted. Which, if you're adopted, like, Don't feel bad about it. There's no need to go around doing these types of things. I don't know if that played into his psyche, or what, but Todd's adoptive father, Robert Reed was quoted as saying, this whole thing has got me. You don't expect to hear that sort of thing about your family.

Cassie: 34:16

Aww.

Caitlyn: 34:16

And here's like, you know, here he has he's been convicted of these horrible crimes. And he's still calling him his family.

Cassie: 34:23

Yeah, that is so sweet. Yeah, I mean, I don't know this guy. But just by that statement, it sounds like he was probably given love and support.

Caitlyn: 34:32

Just sending the case on a really rough, sad note.

Cassie: 34:36

Aww that's sad.

Caitlyn: 34:39

So that's Todd Alan Reed. He's, um, he's a real gemstone in a giant pile of shit.

Cassie: 34:48

Forest Park man.

Caitlyn: 34:49

Forest Park. There were several other cases that I was really interested in when I was looking at them and then I would get going down that path. I'm like, oh shit his actually isn't one of 'The Foretst Park Killers' victims.

Cassie: 35:01

Oh.

Caitlyn: 35:02

There's just a lot of people that were murdered that were dumped there at various times in history.

Cassie: 35:07

Oh my god, oh no!

Caitlyn: 35:08

Yeah, so Cassie let's hike together but not. Not in Forest Park.

Cassie: 35:14

I love Forest Park though it's so pretty and it's huge.

Caitlyn: 35:18

Let's take both of our boyfriends and maybe a couple of large dogs.

Cassie: 35:25

Yep, I have a large do so.

Caitlyn: 35:26

Or a lion.

Cassie: 35:29

I have a Doberman and she is just this fierce protector. She, no she's the biggest baby. these

Caitlyn: 35:36

Although, to be fair I don't know that these murders actually took place in the park, I think that the park has sort of become a dumping ground.

Cassie: 35:43

Yeah just dumped.

Caitlyn: 35:43

Because it's very public. So I feel like if there was a prolonged struggle, or a crime that was being committed that took any amount of time, I feel like you'd be caught red handed.

Cassie: 35:54

I feel like someone would hear it because they're their houses around the park. Like it's not just in a forest.

Caitlyn: 36:01

It's not just a forested area.

Cassie: 36:02

Yeah, there's there's houses surrounding it, and you can like, see people's houses and backyards, and I feel like they would hear

Caitlyn: 36:10

I think so to.

Cassie: 36:12

Maybe hear something.

Caitlyn: 36:14

So that's our case, 'The Forest Park Killer.'

Cassie: 36:16

Oh, I don't like it.

Caitlyn: 36:18

Yeah. It's kind of a bummer I'm not gonna lie. You'll really like the other one. I came up with some really good ways of just, you know, belittling the other- the other guy I'm talking about.

Cassie: 36:30

Oh good.

Caitlyn: 36:31

He's also a very, very well known and well actually, I shouldn't say that. He's not a well known serial killer. He's, he's not well known at all. But when we go to talk about him, I did a bunch of case research. And then I actually listened to another pod where they did an episode about Pacific Northwest crimes, and they covered him so it actually was super cool to be like, oh, okay, so this isn't totally off base because listen, guys, we are never talking about Bundy.

Cassie: 37:04

No, it's so much. Everyone does it. Everyone does all the big cases that you hear about and we want to try to keep it-

Caitlyn: 37:12

The Pacific Northwest has more to offer than just Ted Bundy there's a lot of crazies. There's plenty of people murdering and haunting and doing all kinds of weirdo shit, that isn't cool. Yeah, so I think it's going to be a little bit of a running joke. I think that's gonna be my sign off. Okay, and next week Bundy.

Cassie: 37:34

Not Bundy.

Caitlyn: 37:35

Okay, next week not Bundy. Never Bundy.

Cassie: 37:39

No, never Bundy.

Caitlyn: 37:41

Yeah, never Bundy.

Cassie: 37:42

How 'bout that?

Caitlyn: 37:43

I actually feel like yeah, we probably won't ever cover Bundy. Like what else is there to say? Like, unless we literally interview someone local who knew him? I just feel like i have nothing to add.

Cassie: 37:54

If anyone has any Bundy stories, we would love to hear No. I dont think we need to. them.

Caitlyn: 37:58

Yeah, yeah like a listener tales type of thing. But just to talk about Bundy more? No. Yeah, fuck that guy. Actually don't fuck that guy, but fuck that guy.

Cassie: 38:12

Oh, and all you people that think he's like, attractive? Like,

Caitlyn: 38:16

He's really not attractive.

Cassie: 38:18

Just get out of here.

Caitlyn: 38:19

I don't get it.

Cassie: 38:20

If you're attracted to a serial killer. Like you have issues and-

Caitlyn: 38:24

Well it's was not their fault. They didn't know he was a serial killer.

Cassie: 38:27

Well, I mean after.

Caitlyn: 38:29

Yeah, if you're attracted to him after that pretty-

Cassie: 38:31

Yeah, before it's totally different.

Caitlyn: 38:33

You know who is attractive? Is Zac Efron playing Bundy.

Cassie: 38:38

Oh my God. Yes.

Caitlyn: 38:39

Hello!

Cassie: 38:40

That man.

Caitlyn: 38:41

No, but if I agree, if you are attracted to a serial killer once you know that he's a serial killer.

Cassie: 38:48

Yeah, you're gross and i dont even care.

Caitlyn: 38:49

Yeah. And I need to find some fresh headspace.

Cassie: 38:51

If you're listening to this how you were attracted to seri- serial killers...

Caitlyn: 38:56

I really hope that it's not one of those like, unpopular opinions. Don't at us we don't care.

Cassie: 39:01

I feel like it's not.

Caitlyn: 39:02

If you're still attracted to Bundy. Like, okay, fine.

Cassie: 39:07

I feel like that's not an unpopular opinion. That's-

Caitlyn: 39:10

No, that feels standard.

Cassie: 39:12

Yeah.

Caitlyn: 39:13

So for all of you that are listening, if you have any true crime or paranormal stories that you want us to share, maybe with the whole Pacific Northwest.

Cassie: 39:22

We'd love to read them on the pod!

Caitlyn: 39:24

Yeah, we will read them out loud! Email us at PNWhauntsandhomicides@gmail.com. It's all spelled out, no special characters. Super duper easy peasy.

Cassie: 39:37

Also if you would like to follow us on Facebook or Instagram, it is @PNWhauntsandhomicides. The same thing as the email it's all spelled out, no special characters or anything.

Caitlyn: 39:50

Bitchin. Alright guys, it's been real. So never Bundy, but thanks for listening.

Outro Music: 39:58

[Spooky piano]

Caitlyn: 40:37

Oh no, I'm gonna do it too. If feel like we might need a snack huh?

Cassie: 40:43

[Big yawn]