Rosalina Edmonson: The Habitual Widow

Hi Cassie, hi Katlyn, hi creepy people, hi creepy people. Hello, if you're new to our creepy corner of the world, this is PNW Haunts and Homicides, where we chat about true crime. Did I say chat weird, I feel like I said trap. Where we chat about true crime, paranormal and all things creepy in the Pacific Northwest, where we are at. Yeah, what is the PNW is for? Did you like where I told Ash PNW if you nasty. I did. I love it. I think it's kind of my new thing. Okay, keep saying that. I'm just going to base my whole personality around that. Okay, perfect, we should make t-shirts. Oh, pnw if you nasty. I kind of all right, should I write it down Say Pacific Northwest on the front and then the back, pnw if you're nasty. I don't know why I say nasty like that. We do a tarot reading at the end of every episode for a little bit of deeper insight into our topic. So make sure you stick around if you're into that. Yes, check out the tarot. It's not as scary as everyone thinks it is. Yeah, yeah, and I'm super excited because we are going to do a couple of little bonus-y things for our Patreon today. Yeah, we are, I'm excited, yes, so stay tuned for that. We have a few things to tell them too. So that'll be fun, we do. We think nudge, nudge. Yeah, say no more. Okay, are you ready for this? Yeah, all right, perfect, Rosalina, messina, mendoza, dugano, manthi and Edmondson Wow, what a name. I know, it's quite a lot. It is a lot. Or, as Greg Olson referred to her, the habitual widow. Oh shit, oh shit. Yeah, do not get attached to any of these dudes. This is not the episode to start catching feelings. Oh man, is that the names of all of her husbands in her name? Yeah, so, like, one of those is, at least one of those is her actual name. And then, yeah, wow, so it's a lot. But I think most of us are probably more familiar with the popular term Black Widow. Ooh, scarlett Johansson. Right, she came to America from the Philippines in pursuit of the American Dream, which is that's a bummer. Nobody told her it does not exist. Oh darn it. Ah, shucks. Actually, I think she's part of, like the last kind of era where that was a thing. What a nice thought. You know, like there was hope. You know what I mean? Yeah, you know, it's funny, because we were just talking about before we got started recording. We're like we're basically like on a boat and it's on fire, but somehow you're still cold and hungry all the time and there's like a drunk frat boy driving it. Yeah, sounds about right, mark. Anyhoozle, she made a number of claims about her life back in the Philippines, but before I get into that, I promise this is actually a PNW case. Obviously, I already said she's coming over to the States this week. We're not venturing far from the last city that we visited in Washington, in fact, less than an hour away, because we were in Tacoma last time we spoke. Are we in what's an hour away from Tacoma? I'm trying to think. I have no idea what the Washington map looks like. Yeah, she's like where are we? Seattle is here and Tacoma is here. That is nope, hey guys, like I realize it's a podcast, so audio only typically, but that was, that was way off. You couldn't be more runger. Show me where Tacoma is compared to Seattle with your fingers. It's kind of like this Under it or above it, under? Oh, okay, yeah, you drive through Tacoma. Yeah, rosalina was supposedly an only child of parents that had both died when she was just a year old. Oh, I know, that is really sad. If it's true, it's very sad. Yeah, yeah, it's unclear who exactly raised her, whether it was family members or some type of safety net program like an orphanage. I kind of hate that word. I don't know if there's like a new, I don't know if there's something else we're supposed to call it. Now I don't know. Like what are woke people saying? I have no idea. Somebody tell us is orphanage out? Yeah, is it canceled? In any case, it's an odd claim to make when one considers that records seem to indicate that when she came to Seattle in 1977 at the age of 23, she left behind more than one daughter of her own. Some sources say two, some sources say three. Oh, wow, so she left her kids back in the Philippines. Yeah, and we're not really sure under what circumstances. Yeah, I don't know. I know that happens sometimes when they come over here to work. That is literally my next sentence. Oh, okay, no, this is incredible. You're like the most clairvoyant witchy bitch. I know things there. Now, to be fair, many immigrant stories include separation from family, sometimes of a short and temporary nature, and in other cases it can be long term for a whole host of reasons. Yeah, and sometimes we don't judge. No, it's hard out there. Man For sure, when she arrived stateside, she was apparently unaware that, for reasons that remain unclear, I think when you fly from your homeland and literally everyone you've ever known, you'd probably want to be aware that the American serviceman that you're supposed to be marrying, like he ain't gonna show up. Oh no, they didn't get married. Runaway groom, right? Yeah, I'm not sure if he actually ran away or if he just didn't meet her at the airport, yeah, or just like didn't marry her. Yeah, it's a little fuzzy around that specific point. It's a fun visual. Yeah, I think so. For one reason or another, when she disembarked at SeaTac, she was not greeted by a welcome party, including her fiance and his relatives. How awful would that be if you just come to a new country and no one is there to meet you? Yikes, and it gets worse though. So here she is, she's standing alone at SeaTac at a gate or bag retrieval or I don't know whatever. Having grown up in the Philippines, she spoke TagLok and absolutely zero English. Oh no, what year was this? 77. So they didn't have, like, the translators I mean maybe the booklet translator, things, I don't know. That is rough times for sure, and though she had very little resources at her disposal in the country where she found herself suddenly unceremoniously marooned, she was determined to make it work. Now that she was here, you got to do what you got to do. Where else are you going to go Go back home? Yeah, it's kind of a long flight, yeah, like, and how much did that cost to fly over here? And then do you even have any money to get back? I can't imagine that she was equipped with the kind of funds to pay for a return flight immediately. Yeah, yeah, don't it? I have a feeling we're going to stop feeling bad for her, but I just feel for, like anyone in that situation. Oh no, it's terrible, but yeah, you are going to stop feeling bad for her, although I will say there's a little part of me that's like I don't know. Maybe if her trash fiance had met her at the airport, I don't know. Yeah, she's got a butterfly, flaps its wings, flies across the fucking world to meet you in Seattle, these motherfuckers, you know. Still, it wouldn't take long for Rosalina to see a small shift in her luck. She made friends in the Seattle Filipino community and she found work. She worked at the Olympic Hotel as a maid, as well as at a hospital in Bremerton, where it sounds like the position she took was essentially to cover I don't know a variety of functions as a cafeteria staff member at the facility, okay, like cashier, or I don't know all the things. Whatever cafeteria stuff. Scoop mashed potatoes Ooh, I want mashed potatoes Injected into my vines. Now there's a couple of things to know about Bremerton, washington. It's a pretty small Navy town, but Rosalina would learn, as luck would have it, there are plenty of eligible servicemen stationed or otherwise living there. Oh, yeah, yeah. Also in the pro column, rosalina was an attractive, petite young woman. She was about five two and you guys, I'm telling you, these luscious locks are the dream. Hashtag hair goals. She had long black hair all the way down to her waist, but anyway, rosalina had much bigger concerns at this point than how long her hair is or whether or not she has split ends. So, like I don't know, I guess Dave focus, she needed to find a husband, don't we all? I mean definitely, no, just kidding, literally no, yeah, no, yeah, you don't, you only need yourself, right, but she like actually did. Yeah, finding a husband would prevent her from being removed from the country, which I guess you could say motivated her well and good. You could see that, yeah, that'll do it. Yeah, if she had luck, would have it. She did meet a retired Navyman, her first husband, at least stateside and I'm only adding the stateside just as a qualifier because I feel like I just have no idea if she could have been married prior to entering the States. Right, that makes sense. She has children, so who knows, like it's possible? I'm just saying yeah, I don't know, I'm just digging through like Filipino court records or yeah, it's just not going to happen. So I don't know, maybe she was, maybe she wasn't. She's a woman of many mysteries. There's nothing that I'm aware of to indicate that she was married in the Philippines, but I think referring to her as a habitual widow is probably a pretty good indicator that this bish be traveling. So this man's name was Agapito Dugano. Wow, that's an interesting name. Yeah, he was Filipino. Yeah, yeah, okay. So you said he was retired. Yeah, interesting, good catch. That's not what I was expecting. Why is that? I was thinking about all those single young sailors looking for some extra money in their pocket that they get when they get married in the military. I forget that that's part of it. Yeah, it's a big part of it. Yeah, I bet it's a big part of why people get married so young and a lot of them are in the military. Because you get extra money, you get to live at a house and not the barracks. It's the whole thing. Yeah, that's so true. I forget about that. I just think about it in terms of they want someone waiting for them, more from a psychological perspective. Yeah, I'm sure that's part of it too, but most of it's the money part. I feel like that's very telling about me. I'm like I don't even remember the part about the money. I'm just like but I'm needy. Yeah, okay, so you are on to something. I had 76, he was a widower. Yeah, cassie's face looked like it might just like pop off I try not to judge but like 76. And how old was she? I mean, she was in her 20s. That's a little much. It's a bit much. He had worked at the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard in Bremerton. The two of them were married in June of 1977. I don't know that. I have in my notes the exact date of her arrival in 1977, but it's June when she gets married. So she's been here for definitely less than a year. Yeah, definitely, so pretty quick. Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know you got to act on it. He's old, yeah, like when you know the long nap is going to come. Sorry, aw, best wishes, rosalina. Okay, so here's the thing. This woman works, roll fast. When I said she was here for less than a year, I was totally downplaying it, because when they married it was apparently just about a week after meeting. No, a week, mm-hmm, like, maybe like a month, so a week Exactly. I don't know how long she had been here stateside, but she sure as shit had known him for very long. So the one thing that you did not catch on to at all was, I said, best wishes, and it was because I specifically wanted to lead into a fun fact. Okay, okay, so fun fact. It is traditional to say congratulations to a groom who's getting married or after his wedding, but best wishes to the bride, okay, Huh, yeah, I'm like, does she have any thoughts? And he guesses around this. No, no, okay. The implication is that the groom has made a great catch, but that it would be impolite to say that the bride had. Oh, okay, why is that, you ask? I asked it. I don't know, I don't know. Fuck, if I know. How much time do we have? Not enough, not enough to unpack this, I feel. But all I know is I've read this more than once and I heard the same old adage at some point, I think in Mad Men. Oh, so if that gives you any idea of you know just the level of fuck off. Yeah, I said uh at the time. Her first husband was a healthy and fit man despite his age. That's good, uh-huh, which sure he was, shall we say, enjoying his golden years. But the age gap is what seems more notable than not in this case. Yeah, I mean, let's be honest, everybody is definitely congratulating him. Yeah, you can. I get the vibe. It's like, hey, man, congrats. And it's like best wishes, bitch, hope you like changing diapers, hope you like those old balls. What's his five year plan? Try not to die. Who was that that you were making that joke with the other day? Lindsay, lindsay. Yeah, I was like okay, so remember, I said you know he's healthy and all that shit. Yeah, okay, super healthy. Okay, it was on July 2nd, less than a month after their wedding, that he was found dead in his bed. But you said he was so healthy. I know, interesting Yep A neighbor was later troubled by something that he had shared with them in the short time prior to his death. Any guesses? My wife's trying to kill me, bitch. I mean, what else could it be? Seriously, apparently, mr Jugano had worriedly said she's going to kill me, referring to Rosalina. Okay, but hold on. Did he say it like man? She's going to kill me, right, like there's too much bone in Boots and pants and boots and pants, no, oh, okay. Worriedly said yeah, man, yeah, gotta pay attention to those verbs and adjectives. I could be worried that I'm having too much sex on my my day. It could happen. Speak of the devil. Rosalina inherited his small home on Anderson Hill Road in South Kitsap. She would also walk away from the marriage $12,000 richer, as she was left with that amount in cash as well. Cold, hard cash. That's a decent amount in 77. 77. Yeah, I was like. Now it's like what you have in your wallet to pay for gas. But you know I'm going to do the conversion I did. Yeah, $12,000 in 1977 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $60,417.92 today, that is, as of 2023. This is pretty current. That is an increase of $48,417.62 over 46 years. What happened to the world? A lot of things. On the day that Mr Jugeyno's body was sadly discovered, an inexperienced assistant was sent by the coroner who was out sick at the time. A coroner's assistant? Yes, inexperienced. Yes, sent alone. Yes, because the coroner was sick. Okay, she's just like I need to absorb all of this. Yeah, I just want to make sure I have the facts. Yeah, no, as it sounds, the assistant assumed Mr Jugeyno's cause of death was a heart attack, which seems like a hell of a thing to make an assumption about, but with a 76-year-old man, it's probably. You know, it isn't throwing up any red flags at this point. Right, I could see that. And then, as a result, no autopsy was ever performed. Yes, you make a theory and then you, like, prove the theory. Is that what's supposed to happen? So here's the thing is like they don't just autopsy everybody, they don't. No, that right there, that is exactly what I was trying to capture. I didn't know, because I think a lot of people assume that everyone gets an autopsy and you do not. Your family can request it. Law enforcement can ask for it if you die under suspicious circumstances. Okay, not everybody gets an autopsy, I guess I kind of heard about that with like religious things, but it didn't really. You're like, unless they don't like, unless they ask for their not to be an autopsy, why wouldn't there be Nay-nay? At this point I'm sure you can see where this is going. I mean, we've had some pretty heavy foreshadowing here. I literally told you she is the habitual widow. So I feel like if you're not picking up what I'm putting down, it's kind of on you. But like whatever, if you don't know what a black widow is already, well then, are you even a fan of true crime? Right? I mean, if you're new to true crime, this is like going to be amazing for you, welcome. Well, there was at least one person who hadn't quite worked out what Rosalina was up to and, to be fair, there wasn't much to go on at this stage. Like, the assistant to the coroner didn't figure it out. So, like, how should this guy know? I mean, look at the 20-something year old wife and then the 70-something year old man. I feel like that is enough suspicion and he just died so suddenly after they got married, after a week. So suddenly, yeah, it's just a lot of suddenly salad. Yeah, you know what I mean. So it was the very same year of Mr Duganos passing that Rosalina met the 56-year-old widower Robert C Erickson. He was, in fact a friend of her late husband. Oh, oh my God, okay. And here's the thing Nothing says romance like meeting at a funeral. I guess I have no idea where specifically they met, but that matches up with the timeline pretty nicely, yeah, so I'm just picturing wedding crashers oh my God, the Will Ferrell character Crash and funerals oh my God, ma the me love. Oh my God, this is that guy. This is, yeah, rosalina is that guy. Okay, I mean, I get that, but while the two didn't end up marrying, he did make changes to his will. Fuck, dude, I know. In January 1980, he cut his stepchildren out of the will, leaving everything to Rosalina. That is not nice, I mean. I don't know, maybe they were real dickhead stepchildren. Maybe they were, yeah, but maybe they weren't. If you think you're seeing a pattern develop here, you are not wrong. My creepy friend, as it happens, robert would die just two short months later, so like twice as long as her last husband, though yeah, it would be too suspicious if it was another. What week? Or whatever month? How long was it? They married after a week and then the first husband died after a month. His death certificate listed both senile brain atrophy and minor contusions to the left side of his head. Oh, and then just a casual BAC of 0.13. But the death was not considered suspicious, which is probably because he was a recovering alcoholic. Maybe that just made sense to them at the time. But I mean, who was he partying with? Like ASAP Rocky or Two Chains? What the fuck? He's 56 years old. Yeah, I mean, he's supposed to be in recovery. People do relapse. Yeah, that's life. But for reference, 0.13 is just shy of the threshold, roughly 0.15 to 0.30 percent, which will put you at high risk of less than desirable side effects, such as inadequate breathing, being unable to walk without assistance, or even loss of bladder control and possibly loss of consciousness. So that's like blackout drunk Yikes. A BAC of over 0.30 is likely to put you in a coma or result in death. Damn. So I mean he had a ways to go before 0.30. Yeah, but that's just to kind of give you the sliding scale, so to speak. And he had other health issues, right, because he had a caretaker. Exactly, not good, exactly, perhaps not an example of drinking responsibly, which I have to say so. I mentioned two chains, but, side note, a couple years back, in an effort to bring awareness to the fentanyl crisis here in the States, two chains actually hosted and he called it a no-fent birthday bash. Aw, I know, I know, I don't know much about his background, so like he could be trash aside from that. Not really sure, but that seems like a stand-up move and I'm just going to say I think two chains might have told this guy to slow down if he was actually consuming alcohol at that level of his own accord. Hey, man, go ahead, I digress, not that kind of party dude. Yeah, yeah, no, two chains really likes mushroom parties. I get that. Yeah, yeah, obviously, that's just the thing I do the digressing. Oh, it's like the mushroom parties, the digressing. And yes, those sources will be in the basement. Cassie, okay, cool, thank you so much for asking. Please drink and partake in all endeavors in life responsibly, creepy people, so responsibly, so responsibly. But like, also have fun, also have fun. Yeah, maybe you know, get some liquid IV Hashtag sponsor us, definitely. But back to Rosalina, because she's got yet another newly dead ex-husband and a will to settle out. Oh boy, so so fun. Now Rosalina had a second home in Kitsap on Long Lake Road because, remember, he left everything to her, right, yeah, so she is kind of crushing it on the real estate front, but not doing so awesome. On the suspicious number of dead dudes scoreboard, you know, yeah, but listen, she's still a young woman and life goes on right. During this time, she was becoming reacquainted with an American man that she'd previously met back in the Philippines, richard Manfay. He was a Marine and, conversely, also a career criminal. I feel like that's kind of a unique combination. I don't hear that a lot. I feel like the Marines may be frown upon criminals, yeah, I think in general. Yeah, yeah, so I think that may have been prior to his tenure as a Marine, but Interesting, yeah. And just because Robert hadn't been willing to marry her doesn't mean she was content with the single life, because, you know so he didn't want to marry her, okay, so this is where it gets a little confusing. So Robert, that's the second husband that just died. Richard is new dude that she's now getting reacquainted with. Oh, okay, I know Robert didn't marry her. That's right. You know what? You're probably not the only one that was confused. Uh-huh, so many dudes, in fact, these two. So Richard Manfay, the criminal service man that she'd met in her homeland, and Rosalina were married while she was still serving as Robert Erickson's caregiver. Oh, so interesting. Okay, the plot thickens, uh-huh. So the couple would also have a daughter that they named Vanessa. Again, to clarify, with Richard, okay, not Robert, who is now deceased. It is a lot harder to have children with deceased people. Yeah, did they have the kid while he was still alive, or after that part? I'm not sure about God. She was like living in double life. She was a very busy lady. Her day planner was a must. Did Richard know about Robert? I don't know about that either. I tend to think no, yeah, I also I have to wonder if she still goes by Vanessa, particularly if she still lives in the Pacific Northwest, because you guys spoiler alert this case is going to make the news. Of course it must Right. However, this situation would not prove to be the happily ever after little family that you might be hoping for at this point, because, duh, yeah, you know, rosalina would divorce Richard when he was arrested and would eventually be sentenced and end up serving his time in Montana. Wow, yeah, there's a lot going on here. It is a lot, it's a lot. It was around this time that she lived with another man for a few months before he eventually returned to New Mexico, making a narrow escape from a potentially fatal entanglement. Damn, yeah, like a literal succubus. Yeah, or a squid or an octopus or I don't know something. Creepy Girl, maybe just like, hang out alone for a little bit. Yeah, like you should work on you. Yeah, obviously, no matter. As we know, rosalina isn't one to dwell on the past, her failed or fatal relationships included. In August of 1981, she married another, presumably unsuspecting future ex-husband. Oh, his name was William Edmanson and he was a 23-year-old Navy yeoman. She likes the military dudes, sure does. And I mean, there's a, there's a dearth of them there. Yeah, yeah, true. They would also end up taking part in Rosalina's other part-time hobby, which was apparently now real estate, and they bought a house together near Lake William, simington, washington. Wow, which, I have to wonder. Did he have any idea how many houses she'd already inherited? I know why buy a house when your wife already has at least two that we know of? She needs them to fall back on, just in case, uh-huh. Well, it's funny you say that. So going to pop in some Navy fun facts here, because I was like what the fuck is a yeoman, yeoman, yeyman, I have no idea. A who's it? A what? Yeah, exactly, I literally knew, and, to be honest, still continue to know, almost nothing about anything even remotely related to our armed forces. I mean, at least in the grand scheme of things. I don't know, yeah, and just, it's not a part of my life. There's a lot. It's a big culture, it sure is, truly, but I do know how to sniff out some random shit on the internet. And here's the thing, rosalina, she seemingly targeted these men specifically, which makes it feel pretty garbage-y. So I think there's part of me that wanted to try to share a little bit, you know a little, something that obviously meant a great deal to them in their lives and careers. Yeah, so nice, popping in with the Navy Facts. Yeah, facked me up, facked you up. The yeoman rate is one of the oldest rates in the US Navy, dating back to 1794. So, like just a minute, okay, yeah, I literally thought there was a typo, oh, and that the source material was referring to rank. But apparently the Navy uses rates. Okay, I was going to ask you. I was like I don't know. Okay, so it's not just me. I was like, okay, well, we have to obviously pull it that thread. Yeah, no idea. Yeah, historically, yeoman meant something a little bit different than it does today. With the transition from sail to steam and so on, as technology and tools have changed, yeoman were assigned to the ship's engineers. In the modern Navy, a yeoman is an enlisted service member who performs administrative or clerical work, and I just thought that was so interesting because it seems like, from what I could gather as someone who knows nothing about anything, at least on this topic, it was like that seems like it was like a very physical, like a very manual type of labor that was involved in this position. And now, all of a sudden, they're just like yeah, you're basically just like a guy in an office. Yeah, like a real flip flop there. Yeah, obviously I kept this like really brief and just shared some of what I gleaned from Wikipedia. Yeah, if it looks a little lifted from there, it's because it is, but I just love it. When I meet a new word with a storied history, I do too. Yeah, I nerded out and went there. I don't know. Deal with it, learn to love it. It was also at this point that 28-year-old Rosalina contacted a life insurance agent in early December. Of course she did. It's giving Nancy Brophy. Yeah, she took out two policies one for $150,000 on Edmondson, with her as the beneficiary, and the same policy on her own life, with Vanessa as the beneficiary. So I was like, oh, that's a good cover up, though if you're trying to make it seem like you're not just getting one on him, getting one on yourself too. Yeah, I think so. But when you're a snicket snake like this slag, you don't trust your neighbors, or that State Farm will be there. So she purchased a gun, purportedly for protection. Okay, yeah, seems totally legit. Why did she need protection? I don't know. She never did before, but now she does. Yeah, the 80s wild times, I mean, they totally were. But anyhoo, while on her honeymoon with Edmondson, it appears he was not her only focus. No, no joke, you cannot make this shit up. In fact she visited her now ex-husband, richard Manthee, where he was incarcerated in Montana. Wow, okay, uh-huh. She would go on to visit him in four more instances from that August to November, huh, uh-huh. And she even said that she was going to help him get early release. I bet she didn't. Yeah, it's so funny how you've picked up on that, yeah, but surprise, surprise, she wasn't telling him the truth, or at least not the full story, basically just what she thought he wanted to hear. You see, richard had no idea at the time of her visits to him in prison that she had already remarried. Which can you blame him? Because who can keep track at this point? Because sneaky snake is basically Rosalina's middle name and he literally thought they were still married, him never having signed divorce papers, at least to his knowledge, he thought they were still married. Oh shit, she's like oh, you fell for that whole still married trick. You fell for that. I need your signature trick, right? I just want to know like what did she tell him it was? Or did she just like, forge his signature? Like, anyhoo, they were not. And she remarried, fun, fun, fun. Meanwhile, edmondson wasn't so easily fooled by his new bride. He suspected that she may have used knowledge of his allergy to Tylenol to poison him. He was allergic to Tylenol. Yeah, oh, yikes, that's done a lot of stuff too. I feel like yeah, I think so. I mean definitely something you can find in anyone's home. Yeah, like, if somebody hands you Tylenol. But you told them like, hey, no, I want ibuprofen, or yeah, Yikes, in one instance, whatever the cause, probs us poisoning. Ultimately, it resulted in symptoms of illness that were serious enough to hospitalize him. So this is not a mild allergy. Wow, I wonder how much I know. Because if it was just like if he is really allergic and he had a small amount, like by accident, or if he is only a little allergic but he had a large amount, that's suspicious or more suspicious, or more suspicious. Or he also wrote in a diary about waking up, and this is so bizarre. I've heard this spoken aloud, I've read it and now I'm about to say it and I still can't believe the sequence of the words. So he remembered waking up, badly beaten, with his hands bound in a bathtub full of bloody water. What, which is literally a sequence from a horror movie. Oh my gosh, yeah, that gives me some real yicks. Can you imagine just like waking up like that? Oh my God, no, I mean, I can and I hate it. I'd like to un-imagine it. Yeah, promptly, right, right now. I'm guessing Rosalina didn't realize that he had his suspicions about her. In fact, edmondson felt so strongly that he didn't just share his thoughts by putting pen to paper. He also told a navy buddy of his to give the diary to the police if anything ever happened to him. Hmm, if you are at the point that you have like a secret murder plot diary and you're telling like friends or relatives to like hand it to the police, that's not good. It's probably time to leave. Yeah, yeah, it's not his fault, but yeah, I'm like I don't want to say why didn't you leave? But you know, like, oh, why didn't you leave? It's awful, I know just wishing that he had. Yeah, honestly, what an awful thing to read later as you're investigating the case, dear diary. Today I realized that in all likelihood my wife is trying to kill me. God, I mean, what do you title that journal entry? How to get away with murder. Like, I hate it. Like, in a weird way, it's sort of the Nancy Brophy of it all. You know what I mean, except it's not her writing it. But yeah, but she probably did at one point. She just actually threw it away. Yeah, she's like I wouldn't post that on the internet. I'm not stupid like that one bitch. Oh boy, it wouldn't be long before Rosalina would have the much needed assistance to do just that. You know, like the killing him part Right, it was mid December of 1981 when her now 25 year old ex husband, richard Manthi, was released from the Montana prison, having served his most recent sentence. Doesn't bode well, okay. And he still thinks they're married at this point, or no. I'm not sure at what point he realized they weren't married anymore. Yeah, it's a lot. Rosalina told his parole officer that they were still married so that he was released into her care. They don't check, I know, is that not the craziest thing? Like it's not like, I mean 70s. They look things up in a computer it's 81. Oh right, either way. No, I guess fact checking was harder. Yeah, I don't know. Was it harder in the 80s when the internet wasn't around, or is it harder now that the internet is around? Riddle me that, because I like wonder if she just had like a hard copy of their marriage certificate and that was like the proof could be. Or, you know, maybe they just don't really care, they're like whatever. Like I put down her name, she's the one responsible for him, I guess. Do they care after they don't need to be responsible for him anymore? I mean, maybe not. You know, he's not on probation or parole, like long term and he's moving back to a different state, so they're kind of like all right, well, he's not our problem anymore. I guess it's not like they're like releasing a child back to its parents or something Exactly. That's the daycare. Analogy was very strong with this one. So then Rosalina bought him a plane ticket to return to the state of Washington where he would stay in one of her kids app properties. So having those multiple homes yeah, yeah, handy, because, as we know, she is a lady who wears many hats which she could keep in all of her closet, but she's not only a habitual widow but also a budding real estate mogul Like that just much be so much work. I know Like wouldn't it just be easier to managing all these homes and husbands? Like it just seems really sticky and messy, feels like a lot. Yeah, you know, I feel like, are there not women out there that are having the thought like I barely want the one husband? Yeah, you know, you know. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I'll let you know, you're right, stay tuned. It was just four days after Manthi's return, and also four days before Christmas, that Rosalina's current husband at the time, william Edmanson, disappeared. Oh my God. Yeah, there was a hiccup, though, well, at least for the newly reunited duplicitous duo. Okay, rosalina's check to the insurance company bounced, oh. So she had to scramble to make sure that the coverage on Edmanson was current and active. Oh snap, yeah, she mailed a money order to pay the premium. Now here's where it all goes wrong. She fucks up big time and, like many, a nitty hammer, dunder welp or nincompooped mutton head what's a nitty hammer? You're welcome, like many one of those words before her it was something small and stupid. That would prove to be her downfall. And if you didn't know, there are literally dozens of ways to call someone a moron or adult. Now you do. Those are just a few of them. An adult Adult what's adult? Adult is basically a moron. Yeah, an adult moron, no, just adult, adult, adult Adult. Anyway, on December 26th she began trying to collect on the policy Okay, and he's only been missing though they don't know that he's dead Less than a week, uh-huh, yep, yeah, hold on to that. Hold on to that, because you cannot make this shit up. I grabbed it, uh-huh. So that's red flag number one, because, holy hell, woman, you couldn't just sit on that for, like I don't know, maybe a week or two, but the real problem was that she gave her late husband's date of death as 1222 on the paperwork. How does she know Uh-huh, what a dipshit. Yeah, um, how could she know number one that he was dead already in the first place? Not to mention that, apparently, it literally happened just a day after he was supposed to have gone missing. Okay, as is rarely the case for anything to do with Rosalina, even just by happenstance, the mystery wouldn't linger for long, like does she think that she still gets it if they're missing? Just like, okay, they're gone, they're not coming back. Give me my oh, it's even better Money. Edminson's body was found shortly before the New Year, on 1229. And though she had corrected the date on the paperwork so the paperwork that she provided to the insurance company they could tell that she had written in 1222 and changed it to 1229. Just like, cross it out. I can see how you can maybe write down the wrong number. You know you're distraught and I sure recently spelled my dad dog's name wrong. I spelled wrong on her paw print. It's fine, it's fine, but like I can see how mistakes can be made when you're in a state, mistakes were made. Here's the thing, though If you write down the wrong date and then you correct it like I don't know, maybe just get a new copy of the form or at least use white out. There's so many different ways this could have been handled. And what are the odds that she puts down the date when he actually died instead of the date where his body was found? Yeah, that would be kind of a big I'm just saying Tip off. She totally slipped up on the paperwork and it was a dead giveaway, which feels like a literally, like I'm trying to be funny Like it was a dead giveaway, and then also he was dead and okay, I feel really bad, but I wasn't trying to be silly, yeah, yeah, moving on, rosalina had kept the two men separated at first when Manthi returned to Washington after his release from prison, but on December 21st, a drunken fist fight occurred at her home on Long Lake Road. This was the home she inherited from her other dead ex-husband, robert Erickson. Okay, edmundson was alive following this encounter, but injured and left with multiple injuries. Okay, multiple, wow, super rude, okay, After Manthi kicked him in the face, breaking his nose. So role messed up, yeah, though their altercation also resulted in broken glass on the property. In the grand scheme of things, it's about to seem pretty insignificant. Okay, I don't know why there's a lot of detail about what the broken glass came from, and I don't understand why that part is so descriptive Bottle smash. No, it's not even interesting and it doesn't even sound like it's necessarily directly related to the altercation, but everybody talks about it in such great detail Like it was a wooden door and the glass pane was broken from the fray. Oh, no, I know, I'm like okay, manthi eventually backed off, which might have been nice of him if it didn't follow him, essentially beating Edmundson like he was a prize-winning boxer. Oddly though, he even apologetically offered to take the other man to the hospital. Okay, aw, aw, aw, aw. Manthi drove Edmundson's 1973 orange gremlin, which, hello, that is a time capsule. I don't even know what that is. Oh my God, okay, everyone stop. Aw, those are cute. I've seen those, isn't it? I know. So don't get them wet. Okay, so never wash the gremlin. Yeah, so, any hussle, they are driving in this car, super adorable orange, love it very of the time. But their destination was decidedly not the hospital or anywhere else that Edmundson would be able to receive medical treatment. No, yeah, I mean, you called it. They did not have his wellness in mind. Yeah, it seemed fishy. Yeah, you're like oh man, so sorry, I beat the crap out of you. I'll go ahead and take you to the hospital then. Yeah, yeah, so you can like tell them that the person who dropped you off beat you up. Yeah, like I'm fresh out of prison. No big deal, yeah, at some point during the drive, manthi broke what I have to imagine was either incredibly awkward silence or stopped a very terse conversation laced with a lot of pure disdain by instructing Edmundson to roll down the window and turn his face away from Manthi and the driver's side of the vehicle, which is a weird request. No, huh, yeah, right, so Manthi is driving and he's like, hey, hey, dude, roll down your window and like I don't know, just like face away from me, but why? But why? Okay, so this is why it was then that he shot Edmundson once in the temple. Oh, okay, so it wasn't aiming. I get it. Though this gunshot and resulting wound was not initially fatal, edmundson sat slumped over in the passenger seat. Manthi then returned to Rosalina's house, at which point she got into the vehicle seated behind Edmundson. She held him upright from the back seat, presumably, so this scenario would look a lot less suspicious to any onlookers or passersby. Dang, she weakened and burnied him. Yes, was she like waving his arm out the window at people? Not to my knowledge that, just like I'm like so shocked, I had to make it fucked up Like it's so morbid, it's so gross. When he made a gurgling noise, manthi shot him again. They drove around looking for a suitable location to abandon his brutalized body. What location is suitable for that? Suitable is maybe a bad choice of word. None locations, yeah, none location. The service road they selected was near a tree farm where his body would later be found with no shirt, socks or underwear on and with his pants pulled partially down. I feel like it just adds insult to injury, because it sounds like, basically, they had him placed a specific way. Well, you'll see, it just seems like they're trying to add insult to injury. In my mind, it's kind of fucked up, it's super fucked. To be clear, it's not just kind of fucked up, it's very fucked up. That's so fucked up. All of this is so fucked up, and so is this. He was shot a total of four times. Neither of the perpetrators would reveal the reason they left the man exposed in that manner throughout the course of either of their trials. One thing we do know from testimony at the trials is that Manthi the moron, which you know nice little man-thi the moron, you know he saw bubbles in the puddle where they had placed the body. He thought that the man may not in fact be dead and touching sentiment here said he was concerned about him surviving and Rosalina having to take care of and I'm quoting here because he says something gross he was worried about her having to take care of a cripple for the rest of his life. Wow, thanks, yeah, because, like you weren't the reason, yeah, so thoughtful, that happened in the first place, okay, cool, yeah, also, like you just slopped a body over into this puddle. Like, of course there's bubbles, you fucking idiot. Wow, you absolute sack of human garbage, shit. That's what inspired him to stomp on the man's chest. Like you shot him four times. This isn't a freaking horror movie. Like he's not going to come back to life after you shot him four times. I just don't, I can't. He's not even the villain, I know, I know. Yeah, so he stomps on this man's chest before stealing $500 from his wallet. He also stole two of the man's rings and would make later two separate jailhouse confessions to the crime to others that he was incarcerated with. Ooh, I love a good jailhouse confession. You, piece of actual shit. Like, how did you think you would get away with this? Like, oh, yeah, because Rosalina's real ride or die. Yeah, fucking idiot. Oh man, I'm going to kill him. Edmondson's autopsy would reveal a total of four bullets in his brain, as well as a high level of Tylenol in his system. Hmm, though it proved not to be a fatal dose, though I do wonder if that's only in consideration of an average healthy adult's tolerance rather than, as was the case for Edmondson, someone who happened to be allergic to the over the counter drug. Oh right, that's true. Like what's fatal for, like, a normal adult who isn't allergic to it, versus someone who is? Yeah, someone we know was already hospitalized for literally that Jeez, that is crazy, I know. In any case, it just goes to show that apparently these two weren't going to take any chances of Edmondson surviving, just like Manthi would later state in court, because, god forbid, rosalina should have to take care of someone that she, you know, tried to end their life. Yeah, can you imagine? I doubt either way she would have been taking care of them. No, she would have often if he was back in her care, exactly, or she just would have like fled the state or something you know. Just ridiculous, like he's saying. That is, if it's like a mercy killing, go fuck yourself. How about we mercy kill you? Allegedly. Allegedly. There were, in fact, some other horrifying details that would later come to light, because, hello, it's my week. Yeah, supposedly one of the original murder plots suggested was to get him drunk and send him over the side of a cliff in his car. Damn, they thought about this. They had options. Yeah, they voted on how to kill somebody. Yeah, it's pretty gross. The police also reported seeing them scrubbing down the car following Edmondson's disappearance. Even going so far is trying to spray paint it. I think it's safe to assume that this was a last ditch effort when they realized that they couldn't get the vehicle clean. So they're like we're not having a lot of great success with just like trying to wash off all the blood and brain matter, so we're just going to try to paint it. Just paint the whole thing, just gut it and paint it. Yeah, yeah, damn, at least perhaps not clean enough to feel confident that they would be able to get away with cold blooded murder. So you know, like different levels of clean, if you will, they were, of course, quite right to be concerned. The jury would later learn graphic details about forensic evidence that was recovered from said vehicle. So, despite their efforts to clean it, despite their efforts to paint it, they still were able to collect samples of brain matter from the vehicle. So they don't strike me as very good cleaners. Yeah, anyway, I thought you might feel that way. But, like with all of the like you're shooting somebody multiple times and I can get small area, like that's gonna get everywhere. I don't know if all four shots were fired in the vehicle. You said at least two, though, right, yeah, I think at least two of the shots were fired in the vehicle. Like that's just gonna spray into the vent and like in all the tiny crevices oh my God, that is such a good point In the vent. Yeah, like you are never getting this vehicle clean. No, I watched a lot of CSI. I know where the blood goes, yeah, I mean, and most of CSI is fake, except for when they show you how all of the blood travels. Yeah, rosalina also asked to borrow the neighbor's washing machine, which seemed like an odd request to them. If you have your own washing machine, why do you need to use mine? Maybe it's broken? I mean it could be. Or it could be that you don't want DNA evidence left behind in yours. Yeah, could be that. Did they let her use it? It doesn't sound like it. I'd be like, oh, mine's broken too. Sorry, they must all be down on the block. Yeah, it's weird. La pique, the resistance. Yeah, ooh, the couple had also burned something in the fireplace around the same time that let a noxious black smoke out of the house's chimney. Oh, now we know it wasn't Edmondson's body. Okay, I knew your brain was gonna go back there. No, because you said they found him, I know. But, like the first thing, you're like what the fuck did they burn off that dude? Yeah, not, okay, that's not what happened, but that's kind of funny. You mentioned that because I have a funny story about that. But, like, keep going, I'll tell it at the end, okay, so I would imagine it was something else, because we know it's not Edmondson, right? Maybe the clothes they were wearing at the time? Oh, okay, cause they didn't wanna wash them in the washing machine. They couldn't use the neighbors, uh-huh. So they burned them, which, honestly, in 81, I'm not sure why they wouldn't just have washed them in their own washing machine. Dna should not bleach, but they should not bleach, yeah, and they weren't concerned about the car, but they were like so stupid, burn the car with the clothes in it. Yeah, I don't know, I just it. I mean not to give anyone any tips Like don't do that. And honestly, we'll leave that in because it's not a tip. Burning bodies and vehicles to like actually eradicate evidence is very rarely successful. Yeah, and to be fair, I didn't mean the body, I just meant the clothes in the car. I know, but like the clothes, sure, but like even a vehicle, like there are so many pieces of forensic evidence that they can still pick up from the shell of a burnt out vehicle a lot of times. Really, yes, see, yeah, you'll never, ever, ever get away with it. So just don't be a douche canoe who kills people. Yeah, yeah, fuck wits. I suppose it could have been any number of items that could have tied them to the crime. So I don't know, like what else could they be trying to burn? Who knows, who cares? Whatever. Edmundson's body was discovered by an employee at a tree farm right. No, sadly, his partially frozen body was discovered face down in a puddle along a logging road just south of Port Orchard, washington Manthi was arrested and charged with the murder relatively quickly, while Rosalina remained a free woman. She tried bailing him out, to no avail. They were like no, that's cute though. Yeah, I can't imagine it's easy to bail someone out who's in there for murder, murder, murder. Like a murder suspect, oh, like, but like murder, though, is that a very easy thing to do? No, okay, I didn't think so. Not typically. Yeah, yeah, and I mean, sometimes it's not an option. A lot of times they are held with no bail. Yeah, that makes sense. They're like nah, we're gonna see this whole trial thing through, and you know, we don't want you accidentally murdering again, yeah, or accidentally leaving the country, murdering yourself. I'm sure it's a big thing. Oh, yeah, hey, you know what? How about this? How about this? Why don't you just stay right where we can see you? Yeah, and you know, we'll just put a pin in that whole like leave-in thing and we'll circle back. Okay, no bail. Yeah, she visited him in jail, but in time she would testify against him in his trial Because, of course, yeah, manthi believed he had been set up by Rosalina and you know what, I'm not gonna lie Kind of looks like it. Yeah, no shit. Or, as he called her, rose my Rose, I know and she was like Never let go, she was like my Patsy, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that. His trial took place in 1982, spanning three weeks in the months of May and June of 1982. Three weeks, three weeks, yep, is that like kind of short, or I can't speak to what like the average was maybe in the 80s, but that seems short for me, like based on more current cases, right, yeah, okay, seems a little on the short side. Manthi was convicted of first degree murder at his trial and is serving life without parole at the Monroe Correctional Institute in Washington, though authorities hadn't been as quick to act when it came to charging Rosalina. Following his conviction, she was then charged, which I feel like there may have been a method to their madness with that one. Okay. Her trial also lasted for roughly three weeks, but didn't start until February of 1983, lusting through part of March. During this time, however, she was out on bond posted by friends until the trial commenced. Okay, so she's just like out. They're like Probably trying to catch more dudes Right? Pre-trial publicity caused the jury to be pulled from Pierce County. This meant the jurors would have to be bused in from Tacoma to the Kitsap County Courthouse Import Orchard. So just like. Just like Rue, remember Rue? Yeah, there's Nesland. Yeah, also like state of Washington, like you know, it's like what is in the water up there, I don't know Y'all be killing these husbands. Everyone be careful. I don't-. Wow, she required a Tag Log interpreter, despite seeming to understand her own counsel just fine. Oh, that's a nice strategy. It's interesting. I don't know what you would gain from that. Yeah, I mean, she's just trying to garner sympathy and like create a little bit of wiggle room. I think Trying to create like possibility for appeal, trying to get the jury to sympathize with her. I mean, there's a lot of things that they can be trying to kind of-. Well, extra time to think on your answer real quick while you're yeah, yeah, I mean. Well, here's the thing is, when you've been married that many times and you've killed so many of them, like sometimes you just have to like think through the details. Which one was this? Okay, exactly, At the trial she alternated between two outfits and I have to admit, if the look you're going for is respectable housewife who had nothing to do with the tragic death of her husband, they nailed it at least in part some of the days Kind of Shouldn't wear like a black leather cat suit. No, darn it. She wore a dress with a Peter Pan collar or a black and beige two-piece suit. So very cute, very prim, very proper, definitely what they want the wife to be wearing, mm-hmm, though on some days her hair was a hot mess yeah, yeah, based on the descriptions, yeah, hot mess. Or her face was red and puffy, which I mean you'd think that would play towards like sympathy because like, maybe she's upset, she's crying. Apparently it wasn't that kind. Apparently, the jury was unconvinced that either the hair, the redness or the puffiness was due to her genuine shock or devastation at the loss of her husband. She probably pinched her cheeks a bunch right To get her to tear up and like, yeah, she sometimes hid out in the women's restroom or covered her face to avoid being photographed by the almost rabid media. Ugh, I hate that part. I know it's a little icky, I get it. We're all very interested, we're all very curious, but the prosecution hammered home the combined roughly $300,000 she stood to claim for her husband's death. Hmm, when her verdict was to be read, on March 5th of 1983, rosalina apparently suffered a stress attack in her cell and couldn't be brought to the courthouse, which I do not understand, because the judge actually did not allow in any of the previous dead husbands. Like they couldn't say anything about it. Oh, interesting, she has still literally never been convicted of anything related to her previous husbands. Yeah, I mean, it makes sense To this day, to this day, man, in fucking sane. Clearly she had something to do with it, right? I mean, I'm sorry, two plus two equals dead husband. Like, yeah, but man, I would have a stress attack too if I was finally being caught. I mean, I just feel like she had to have been feeling relatively confident. I mean, I don't know, they couldn't even talk about the other dead ex-husbands. Really, they made insinuations. I don't know, I'm just saying, well, no matter. In this case, apparently the courtroom came to her In her prison cell. Yeah, and it wasn't literally the entire courtroom, it was essentially the judge and both sides of legal counsel. But they came and he was like bitch you guilty, did they set up like the altar thing with the gavel. The altar, what is it? The bench? Approach the bench. Yeah, approach the bench. She was convicted of first degree aggravated murder and sentenced to life without parole. She has since exhausted every attempt for appeal and she even requested clemency in 2001, which not a lot of people get. I forget what that is Fuckin' suck it. So clemency is a mechanism for granting a person convicted of a crime, so a criminal offense. You're granting them relief from a court ordered sentence or punitive measure. So you're like, yeah, we shouldn't have done that. That's like kind of messed up. No one is saying that for you, yeah, so it's like you're still convicted of it, so you don't have to have any of the sentence time. It sounds like it could be kind of in that vein. So reading on, it says there are two main methods through which clemency can be given a pardon or commutation of a sentence. A pardon exempts a convicted individual from any remaining punishment or future consequences stemming from a conviction. Commutations reduce an individual's sentence, either fully or partially, and clemency is usually requested through a petition or an application process and can be granted for any number of reasons. Okay, so clemency doesn't necessarily imply that, like you're innocent, yeah, it could just be like, hey, I did it, but like I'm sorry, ugh, no, you're not. I don't know if that's exactly how it works legally speaking. Hashtag, not a lawyer, okay, but I'm just saying that it's interesting to look at sort of the differences in definition of some of these terms that I think a lot of us hear thrown around. Right, yeah, rather than admitting her guilt, she has remained steadfast in her claim of innocence, pointing to a vast conspiracy within the legal system to keep her behind bars. She currently resides in the Washington State Correction Center for Women near Gig Harbor, like other famous husband-murdering broads such as Ruth Nesslund. It's more likely than not that's where she'll stay until she dies herself. Dang shouldn't have been a black widow? I don't know. Like, don't be a widow on purpose is what I'm trying to do that? Yeah, you don't know what I mean. It's a full widow. Yeah, yeah. Well, should we do some tarot? Tarot, let's do it. I already put my powers in the deck, you dare. She shuffled. She shuffled again, doing the tarot read for crap. What's her name? Rosalina, rosalina. I was like should I just rattle off all the names? Yeah, the whole name. I still don't remember them all. Rosalina the black widow, what card are we gonna get for you? I would be freaky if we got the high priestess. Oh, you just jinxed it. I don't know, did I? That has a spider on it. For anyone who doesn't know, okay, not the spider. We just got this one pretty recently, really. Okay, I'm gonna hold onto that one. Yeah, page of Wands. Was it in reverse? It was Reverse Page of Wands with a little fox on it. I know it's so cute. It does look like it's on the hunt, on the prowl for a man. Ooh, I didn't think about it like that, eek. So, page of Wands. Our keywords are questing, playfulness, innocence, curiosity and learning. The Page of Wands is a youthful figure, sometimes a boy, sometimes a girl. Older decks often show him or her in Renaissance style court garb with short pants and stockings. Ooh, court garb. Oh, you talked a lot about her outfit too. I did. Yeah, he or she may wear regular kids' clothing. I mean child's. She was small Child's. Yeah, the page goes by other names too, depending on the deck, including child, daughter and apprentice. The collective tarot calls them seekers. In a reading, the Page of Wands may signify an actual person. If so, it's a spunky child or young person who's full of curiosity and eager to learn. Yeah, she was a young, spunky seeker curious, I'm assuming. Yeah, I don't know. Ooh, I don't. I just think she's spunky because she went from dude to dude. That's how I picture her. She definitely comes across as spunky, like other times throughout. I don't know, it's interesting. It's interesting. It's a thinker. Go on. Reversed, the Page of Wands represents a delay, mix up or disappointment. Sometimes it says the time isn't right to start something or that you're on the wrong track. Bitch, get off the track. Get off the track. If the card signifies a real person, it may mean here she can't be trusted or isn't up to the task. To like take care of her husband who she poisoned. What In a reading about money, the Reversed Page advises caution. Seek advice from someone more knowledgeable and experienced. Wait a while and get more info before laying down your hard-earned cash. Eek, yeah, eek, eek, eek. If you asked about work, this card suggests you may be naive about a situation related to your job, or it may show you need to learn more, develop your skills or put in more effort to get ahead. Yeah, instead of just relying on these guys to die and leave you their money in houses. Oh, yeah, I don't know. The first bullet about money feels like it relates to all of the ex-husbands. Yeah, I don't know. In a reading about love, this page can show childish behavior, hangups from childhood that interfere with the relationship, unrealistic expectations or lack of commitment. Yeah, I don't think I even have to twist those around. I think those feel pretty fitting. Yeah, in medieval times this is an extra excerpt, by the way Okay, page or princess. In medieval times, a page served as an assistant to a knight or a nobleman and sometimes as a court messenger. Although those pages were boys and in early tarot packs that are portrayed as youthful males, contemporary decks often depict them as young females to establish a gender balance among the court cards. That's kind of interesting, because we were talking about the Barbie movie and the gender balance thing earlier. And think about it too. You don't really hear about female serial killers all that often. Yeah, yeah, ooh, we're shaking things up around here. I guess I'm gonna shake it up too when I'm pulling another card, do it. Okay, I'm gonna turn off the light. I got the king of wands Interesting. Okay, king of wands. Okay, it's another wolf guy. Key words are leadership, self-confidence, success, good fortune and loyalty. All right, as befits a king. The king of wands often appears seated on a throne, wearing a handsome robe and a crown. He's a dignified man who exudes confidence, authority and power. Yet he doesn't seem at all threatening at first. In fact, he's usually shown as a handsome and benevolent ruler. In a reading, the king may signify an actual person. When he does, it's generally a mature man who's obtained a position of wealth and status, perhaps the head of a business or a leader in the community. These are like the guys. Yeah, that's immediately what I thought. That's immediately what I thought when I pulled it. I mean, it's king and it's like the king is like the oldest, mature man. The page is like the youngest. There's an extra excerpt. Which way does the king face? Look at what it's facing on the table. Yeah, when I put it down here, mm-hmm, was this upright? Yeah, oh, my God, shit, you're gonna die. The king upright is a fortunate card. Regardless of the situation. I don't know If he represents a real person. It's someone you can trust and rely on to do the right thing. Aw, he's a loyal friend, a fair-minded employer, a wise advisor, a competent and honest leader. This intelligent man has high ideals. He's an active, energetic, independent individual with a passion for life and an adventurous nature. Do you know who this reminds me of? Who? The first husband, the first one, right off the bat? Yeah, because here's this like very well-established, like retired military man who's like very healthy and active. Yeah, immediately, ugh it just it makes me sad. It does. It's a gray wolf. By the way, in a reading about money, you can expect good things to come your way when the king appears. Oh, I feel like it played out for the wrong person, though, yeah, you know, it can also show you moving into a position of authority. Oh, yeah, these are definitely like men in a position of authority. Yeah, I don't know that a lot of this feels like it's super. I think it really just represents all the men. It centers on them. She victimized yeah, a thousand percent Cause I'm sure you know they were. They were not stupid people, like she totally manipulated them, I'm sure. Oh, yeah, definitely. Sometimes I feel like we're always looking for like a little bit more and it's like sometimes it's just that simple. She sucks. They were awesome people. Yeah, she done fucked up. If you loved listening to that terror reading and want to see it. Then you can become a member of our wonderful Patreon. I mean, I'm a little biased, but you know, yeah, where a video of every terror read is uploaded with the ad-free version of the episode every week. Our videos usually have a lot of fun extras that we cut out of our regular episodes. Lots of fun extras, sometimes really silly extras, a lot of technical difficulties that you're gonna witness. We just want you to know the real us, the real struggle. Yeah, the struggle is real, cause it is a struggle. Patreon is a monthly subscription with a range of price points and benefits. Every member gets a personalized welcome card. We literally write your name on it with our fingers. Yes, we have pens like hands holding pens oh, yeah, not in blood with our fingers, like we use our fingers and hold the pens and then the pens write the cards. Yeah, exactly yeah, the pens write the cards. Yeah, you also get a shout out in an upcoming episode you guys may have heard. It's very fun If you want us to say your name. You know where to come. Oh, that rhymed, I wasn't even trying. You also get exclusive bonus episodes and so much more, and we have some stuff coming up. We do, but, kessie, you forgot like basically the best part. I know, yeah, you always do, I do it's where we put the tarot readings, the little mini ones, into your welcome card. If you can't support us monetarily, no worries, because the easiest ways to support are absolutely free, and actually, if you want to support us in a way that's free, you should email us, cause we will give you a whole host of ideas for how you can do that. I am not kidding, you can email us, or you can tell everyone and anyone you come into contact with about our wonderful show Doi, or you can also leave us a five star review on any platform you can, you know, specifically Apple, but, yeah, probably like Apple, spotify too. If you have any true crime, paranormal or witchy stories to submit for our listener appreciation episodes also known as creepy people chronicles, please email us at PNW Hansen Homicides at gmailcom. We spell that all out. It's a whole thing. You've probably heard us say that before. Or you can use our handy dandy Google contact link and that's always in the episode description. You can find it on our link tree. Yeah, we've made it almost impossible not to do it actually. Yeah, we've seen a couple people use it recently. Right, we have. Yeah, thank you. You are always welcome to remain anonymous if you send us in a story, and remember they don't have to be from the Pacific Northwest. If you want to share, that's true, they can be from anywhere, anywhere, any damn where. Share from anywhere. Australia, we said Australia already. We did. Do you think they have ghost spiders? Oh, I don't want to talk about that, murdering or ghost spiders. Send in your stories from Australia. Follow us on all of the socials if you don't want to miss out on photos of the tarot cards, our beautiful altar setups, the occasional odd tweet that I send out I'm never calling it X, everyone get over it and some backstage shenanigans. Someone likes to post videos of me with dolls. Yeah, I do Like three of them in a row. Listen, if you make me go stand by the dolls, you're going to be all over TikTok bitch. You can find our website and link tree in the description of this episode to check out all of the creepy fun we have to offer. Mostly Cassie holding dolls, talking to dolls, listening to dolls. I held that doll for like a solid 15 minutes. I feel like that feels like at least 14 minutes too long. I was just carrying it around Like we bonded. He even said it. He's like, wow, you guys bonded, wow, and I felt slightly weird having to give it up. No, thank you. Like it was like my new baby a little bit. Its jaw was only like semi falling off. All right, have a creepy ass day. See you next Tuesday, unless you're out black widow in around town. Like don't come here. Yeah, don't do that. Why would you even suggest it honestly? Or should I direct you there? Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh. But when people come over here, that's your personality you would love to see him there. Thathehehe, all right, if you're never going to remember our last episode, remember that Once you've got the number one toy, you want to try that one, right? Yeah, a��ин Cool. If you're first person on YouTube, you'd be very hard feelings if you don't already worry aboutoso país. No, I just agree. That baby is going to talk to VA. Okay, I'll tell you my story really quick. So if anyone doesn't want to hear, it is about picking up my dog's ashes. It's a sad thing, but a funny story kind of came out of it. So I go in and there's kind of two funny things I go in and I tell her my dog's name and my dog's name is Shay and she's like asked me to say it a couple of times and she's like I'm so sorry, I thought you were saying shit and I was like well, I did call her that. So she laughed and you know we, I got the ashes and stuff. So I'm coming out of the building and first when I'm pulling up to the crematorium, I don't expect to see smoke. I mean, you think you would expect it, but for some reason I did not expect it Anyway. So the funny thing that happened. So I'm like holding the ash that's walking to my car. You know, I'm kind of sad and like in my own head and I hear like honking and kind of yelling. This guy was like like yelling at someone, like hey, and you know I'm not paying attention. Really it's I was like always be paying attention. I mean I was paying attention, but like that kind of thing I don't. It happens, you know, so often you hear people honking and yelling, so it's like I didn't see anything directly around me. So I just continue to walk to my car. So then I hear someone pull up like past me and then like honked again and I was like hey, hey, and he sounded like really concerned. So I was like, well, oh, like, is something going on? So like go out and I look and this guy is in his car. He's like hey, the building. Do you see all the smoke? He's like I, is it on fire? I was like, oh my God. I was like, well, it's a crematorium for pets. And I'm like holding my dog's ashes trying to explain to this very concerned man that the building was not on fire. And he's like I was so worried about everyone inside and I was like can you picture if he would have ran inside and started yelling that there was smoke coming out? Oh my God. But it made me laugh and I have no words. It's not the craziest thing. Yes, that happened, that happened to me. You're like that's real life, that happened, wow. Well, I'll never forget the day that I picked up my dog's ashes. For more than one reason. It sounds like oh my God. So, oh, wow.